Amsoil now recommends Subaru's 3,750 mi. turbo OCI

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bluesubie

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I hope this isn't a re-post, but I just found the recommendation on amsoil.com.

I'm a bit surprised by this but I guess they're covering themselves. IMO, the bulletin came about due to owner neglect and/or modified engines without a modified oil plan. My dealer's head master tech has only seen it in modified/abused cars.

Subaru of America recommends it for MY2008 and later, but some dealers are recommending it across the board for consistency. Original discussion here about the new OCI.
And the TSB

New from Amsoil.com:
Quote:

SUBARU TURBO SPECIAL MESSAGE:
Subaru has published Service Bulletin # 02-103-07 that identifies a factory design related problem with premature clogging of the oil mesh screen located inside the oiling system that supplies the turbo charger on all model turbo charged cars. A clogged screen will result in oil starvation and turbo charger failure. Subaru has reduced their recommended oil drain interval in half, as a solution, from 7,500 miles to 3,750 miles (3-3/4 months) and requires the oil mesh screen to be inspected, and possibly serviced, at every oil change. With this Subaru factory related design issue, AMSOIL INC. therefore must recommend customers follow the new Subaru oil change interval of 3,750 miles or 3-3/4 months until Subaru resolves this issue.


Discuss.
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-Dennis
 
hmm, well, its cheap insurance for them. Sounds like theyre covering their butts. I'm guessing a recall will follow.

I'm suprised too that amsoil is going that route.
 
As it is a design issue with the motor Amsoil, and any other manufacturer for that matter, has no choice but to follow the TSB information. It's not the oil failing, its the motor failing the oil
grin2.gif
That may be a first for this site.
 
I know that nearly EVERY guy autocrossing their '08 STi's are getting free piston rings and pistons as well :)

A friend that does not post on NASIOC sent me 3 UOA's from his car, using Subaru dealer 5w-30, and it does not look good. I think that the oil is way too thin for this application. New engine parts and RTS 5w-40 is now happy-happy!
 
First thing I did on my Subaru was remove those oil screens, they simply aren't needed and cause issues.

After doing so the car idled NOTICABLY smoother.

Whole write up on it at Nasioc.
 
I think that Amsoil learned its lesson from the Toyota sludging issue. About 100% of Amsoil dealers still went with the extended oil change intervals for the Toyotas (mine sure did) even though they knew problems were being had but the company line of extended OCIs was at risk (go 25,000 between changes) so rather then alter their PR at the time they just went about business as usual.

Then the sludge issue started to hit home and Toyotas using Amsoil were, indeed, sludging up and Amosoil got hiot with warranty claims but insisted that it was the poor design of the engine ( the out for warranty issues) . They may have paid a few warranty claims and should have, as the dealers knew these engines were a problem but refused to alter their company pitch.

So, why purchase Amsoil for turbo Suburu if the interval is the same as any other oil?
 
I have long term experience using the Amsoil TSO & ASL formulations for 10,000 mile OCI's in stock WRX's with no issues. These intervals are supported by oil analysis.

The issue here is mainly legal and not technical - Amsoil will certainly last several times as long as a conventional lube even in a problem motor. I recommended a 7k-10k OCI in the Toyo V-6 (depending on type of service) and never had a problem.
 
Solo2 - Is that before or after the '08 STI ECM recall? There were quite a few broken ring lands before the recall.

I have to find out from my tech if he removed the turbo intake screen when he swapped my turbo (under warranty).

I agree that it's a legal CYA, but will probably steer customers away as Spector is saying about "why purchase Amsoil for turbo Subaru's?". The out of warranty and the oci crowd will probably continue with longer oci's.

Of course this is only N. America and most of Europe and Asia continue with 10km OCI's. Although there's less use of girly-man oils in those places.
grin2.gif


-Dennis
 
Funny how things work here vs. there (anywhere else).

At our level of technical development ..there should never be "issues". Things should work as designed ..or they shouldn't ever make it to market. It appears that too much R&D ..or rather "debugging" occurs after the point of sale.

This isn't Subaru 2.5XT 1.1-2.9 Service Pack 2
 
Most of us would agree that 7500 miles is too far on most US conventional oils in turbocharged engines. It proved too much for certain N/A Toyotas. Factor in that a 7500 mile change interval was likely far longer for a lot of people, you have problems. I have a friend that hadn't changed the conventional oil in his '03WRX for 11K. He knows better, but didn't get around to having his oil changed.

IMHO the problem is not with the screen, but Dennis's girly-man oils and the average person's OCI habits.

Ed
 
Ed - Where have you been? Still running Rotella 10w-30 in the Legacy GT?
19.gif


-Dennis
 
I know that the revised OCI spec applies to the new WRX/STIs with the 2.5 H4 turbo. Does anybody know if they also advise this on the older 2.0L turbo used in the '02-'04 models? I'm not too concerned since prior to finding BITOG I was always doing 3,000-3,500 OCIs even when I was splurging on the dealer oil changes with M1.
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My longest OCI is actually my current fill of PP 5W-30 and that is right around 4,100 miles. I'm also planning to change it out this weekend and run a UOA.

Ed B.
 
Originally Posted By: Solo2driver
I know that nearly EVERY guy autocrossing their '08 STi's are getting free piston rings and pistons as well :)

A friend that does not post on NASIOC sent me 3 UOA's from his car, using Subaru dealer 5w-30, and it does not look good. I think that the oil is way too thin for this application. New engine parts and RTS 5w-40 is now happy-happy!

Not that conventional 5W-30 is too thin, but that it isn't robust enough. The best synthetic 5w-30 is probably fine, and synthetic 5W-40 is even "tougher" oil. The clogged oil pickup screens sound like other turbo problems where the oil has coked (turned to carbon) in part of the turbocharger assembly due to excessive heat. An electric oil pump with a few minutes of post-lube running time after the engine has been shut off would probably cure this by keeping the oil pumping through and not letting it sit in the turbo and get way too hot, as would idling the engine after hot runs, but both are impractical for the consumer market. Or, maybe these turbochargers are just getting way to hot, especially on modified engines with no thought of keeping the oil alive. More oil flow through the turbocharger, better oil, better water cooling of the turbocharger, and better oil cooling are all possible solutions.
 
Ed B. - The TSB that I linked above states All Turbo Vehicles but I didn't think the 2.0's had this screen (search on nasioc). I know they don't have the AVCS screen which was another problem.

You still get the same message that I posted above when you look-up an '02 WRX on amsoil.com.

-Dennis
 
(not rereading all the posts)

I'd tend to interpret this/these screen(s) as warranty assurance items ..or at least an attempt at it.

If the screen is to prevent certain sized particles from entering the turbo ..damaging it ...then it's effectively a filter and would, sensibly, eventually saturate. Without some inherent phases accumulate:purge action with an oil change ..it's a guaranteed issue just waiting to happen ..by design.

That is, unless the screen is so big and the incidence of what it traps is so rare that the screen can last beyond the other fatigue factors of the chassis. That is, something like an "umbrella" inserted into your (hmm) aorta (?) to catch blood clots to prevent pulmonary thrombosis.
 
Putting a turbo timer on this car would help with this problem a lot.

Not practical for most drivers however..

Now would it fit into the fuel economy mindset of the new $4/gallon world.
 
Gary - There's actually a pic in the "TSB" link in my original post. I could probably find another one with some searching.

-Dennis
 
Has anyone seen this problem cause a turbo failure in a stock Sube turbo using an ACEA A5/B5 or A3/B4 quality full synthetic?
 
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