AMSOIL experts, please chime in

[moribundman]

A fellow Audi owner is contemplating AMSOIL Series 3000 100% Synthetic 5W-30 Diesel Oil for his recently rebuilt 2.8 V6 12 valve normally aspirated Audi engine. Would this oil be a good choice? He is already using an AMSOIL bypass filter setup. For break-in of the rebuilt engine he used DELO 400 15W-40. Now he is looking for a thinner oil with good HTHS capable of extended drain. He won't use Mobil. The rebuilt engine uses gapless Total Seal rings, in case it matters. [ November 05, 2005, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[Pablo]

What viscosity is appropriate per the book?

 

[moribundman]

Anything from 5W-30 to 20W-50/10W-60 is listed in the manual! 5W-30 is fine without any ambient temperature restriction in case of an (full synthetic) oil that meets VW 502.00. Although that Amsoil oil does not meet VW502, it meets the HTHS requirement (=/>3.5), which is important not only to me but also to the owner. While I have no doubt this oil will work, I don't know if it's the best choice. How's the sulfated ash content? It shouldn't exceed 1.5%.

 

[Pablo]

it will push 1.5%

 

[moribundman]

I'd say if he has low-to-norml oil consumption, sulfated ash is not an issue. Do you think he'd be better off with another AMSOIL oil like the 5W-40? By the way, he is in the LA area, so cold temps are not an issue, and he could get away with straight 30.

 

[buster]

mori the S3k is an outstanding oil, but I think I'd use the 5w-40 AFL.

 

[moribundman]

Based on my good experience with 5W-40 in the same type engine, I myself would also choose the AMSOIL 5W-40, but what are your reasons?

 

[buster]

I can't say for sure that the 5w-40 would be better, but I think for the money it is a better choice. Being this engine can handle anything up to a 60wt oil, the 5w-40 might just be a better all year round choice. They both use a lot of Ca, no Mg. The AFL has less ZDDP then the S3k. I think it's just a better choice when considering the cost. It's a tough call. HT/HS of the new S3k is 3.6. PDS has been updated last week.

 

[Pablo]

Where does this friend live, Mori? I would say a cold climate go 5W-30, warmer 5W-40. How long of OCI?

 

[moribundman]

He is in the Los Angeles area. Sicne he has an AMSOIL Bypass filtration unit, I expect him to go for at least 10k miles. I'm neither agreeing or diagreeing on the 5W-40 being the better choice of the two. I know this type engine does also very well with straight 30 Red Line oil. My impression is that he's looking for the "best" oil he can find. Since I don't belive in one best oil, I really find it hard to help him choose.

 

[Pablo]

I think either oil would do fine. I like the 5W-40 because it's like 60-70% of the cost of the HDD. In a clean engine with a bypass a 10K interval should be doable. Do a UOA at 7.5K just to confirm.

 

[buster]

The RL 5w-40 is also outstanding. Is that an option? TBN for both the S3k and AFL are about 12. I still think best bang for your buck is AFL. [ November 05, 2005, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[moribundman]

He is shooting for a 15k mile OCI. Here is more info on his car and driving habits as well as engine-specific mods:

quote:

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My oil consumption continues to decrease on average, but I have two types of consumption presently: 1. Those huge 3mm oil rings take a minimum of 3000-5000 miles to seat properly. I spoke to the only other person I know who has a custom TotalSeal Ring set--a automotive engineer who put them on his "old-school" Audi V-8. He recalled that it took "forever" for his rings to seat, but once they did . . . No more oil consumption past the rings whatsoever. 2. I still have a bit of over-pressure in my valve train due to not finding the perfect diameter breather hoses. What worked well pre-rebuild has not worked too well since the rebuild. Pre-rebuild, you may remember that I had a problem with my stage 3 silicone set-up literally sucking the oil out of the valve cover, and I remedied the problem by using over-sized breather hoses to reduce the vacuum. After the rebuild, at higher RPMs, my crank case pressure went so high that it came out of the front end of my gun drilled cam on bank 1--yes, the end into which the cam sprocket bolts! (It did not come out on bank 2, because that one has the cam position sensor on the back end and goes through the valve cover completely). So I reduced the diameter of the breather hoses and installed an inner liner similar to that of the OEM set-up to catch oil but still create more vacuum to reduce pressure. So, my oil consumption varies with my RPM's. On the one hand, the engine can eat a bit of oil when I take advantage of breath-taking acceleration and use all 6000 RPM; on the other hand, I have minimal oil consumption with mellow commuting. Thus, I still have to create more vacuum in breather hoses to keep the oil from seeping past the valve stem seals at high RPMs when pressure becomes greatest. What level of oil consumption would you consider acceptable for using this Series 3000 5w-30? (Also remember that the oil pressure should decrease with this thinner oil--I feel some what interested in this tougher, cleaner thin oil, because, theoretically, this should also result in lower oil consumption with my particular TotalSeal ring set.)

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I really think he is looking for the best oil in his application, regardless of cost.

 

[buster]

The guy sounds like he knows quite a bit about engines. I'd ask him if he realizes that some degree of oil consumption is a good thing. Certain engines that don't use any oil at all can have a propensity to develope worn valve guides. Too dry of a valve stem seal that doesn't let any oil down into the valve guide can be bad. This is comming from a GM engineer. I wasn't aware that rings can take that long to seat properly. Is the guy doing a lot of WOT during break-in to help assist that? RL has a very low Noak of %6, as does Amsoil. Both oils will result in the lowest oil consumption in their viscosity range compared to other brands.

 

[moribundman]

buster, those Total Seal gapless rings are HUGE compared to the whimpy low-tension rings Audi put in that engine. The tension and oil rings are in my opinion of two weak points in this particular engine design; the other one are the valve stem seals and guides, which in my experience are not super-tough in any VW or Audi. However, he has bigger valves installed and I am sure they are more robust that the OEM parts. About his comments regarding oil consumption: I make the same experience and I know I can cut oil consumptiom in half by driving tame. It was like that with the two VWs I've owned and it's the same with the Audi. Some oil must get to the valve stems and will be burnt, and I don't believe he is expecting zero oil consumption. The 12v engine tends to guzzle oil if driven in sporty manner. Over a quart per 1k miles is not uncommon! Interestingly enough, until about 60k mile my engine consumed less than 1.4 qt per 10k miles. The engine also loosened up noticably until about 6ok miles, and is now with over 140k miles, more free-reving and faster than ever. I'm sure most my oil consumption is due to leakage past old, hardened and shrunken valve stem seals. Great, the post is again all about MY car.

 

[buster]

Thanks. I guess I'd go with the AFL over all. Cheaper and might reduce oil consumption a tad being it is a 40wt oil.