From the Amsoil website:
Know the Facts
AMSOIL Saves You Money!
AMSOIL extended drain intervals mean fewer oil changes, long term savings and convenience.
Conventional motor oil companies recommend 3,000-mile drain intervals
Conventional 10W-30 Motor Oil
(40 quarts needed for 25,000 miles)
@ $1.50/qt. x 40 = $60.00
8 Standard Oil Filters @ $5.00 per filter x 8 = $40.00
TOTAL $100.00
AMSOIL recommends 25,000-mile/1-year drain intervals
AMSOIL 10W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
(6 quarts needed for 25,000 miles) @ $5.85/qt. x 6 = $35.10
2 AMSOIL Super Duty Oil Filters @ $10.00 per filter x 2 = $20.00
TOTAL $55.10
This is just plain untruthful!
Changed the title only.
[ May 31, 2004, 04:18 PM: Message edited by: 59 Vetteman ]
Amsoil Being Amsoil
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Why is it untruthful?
Maybe not all cars, all cases, but... 25,000 Miles
Maybe amortize the $200 over the life of the car, so the cost will be a tad more.
Looks like the conventional pricing might fit Wix and Pennzoil or AC Delco and a Blend, which could go 5,000 mi.
Since ATM (I'll run it 10K or so) is a stretch, this considerably changes the economics doesn't it??
I run Syns, but the purchase price economics are usually a "wash."
Time, labor, convenience, cleaner engine, cold starts etc. has to be the selling points.
Who's being fooled anyway? Just marketing hype they all do. Some of the Castrol and M1 commercials on TV have ****** me off lately too.
1. Amsoil makes no mention of purchasing a bypass system in this "advertisment". Makes it seem like you just need to use a regular filter and you'll be fine. On that same note, they make no mention of the purchase price or price of bypass filters you'll need to purchase throughout life of engine.
2. Manufacturers suggested drain intervals are only 3,000 for severe driving situations...more like 7,500 for normal driving situations (as is Amsoil's 25,000 interval for normal conditions as well).
3. Top-name conventional 10w-30 doens't cost $1.50 quart...more like $1.00-$1.25.
4. How much does Amsoil actually cost (oil and filters) after you have it shipped to you since it's not widely available?
5. A standard oil filter does not cost $5.00...try half that.
BTW, I have nothing against synthetic oils. Matter of fact, I WILL NOT use mineral PCMO's simply because I feel while they can keep metal wear rates low on regular drain intervals, they can not keep an engine clean!
I'm just trying to make a point here about the "false economics" Amsoil is trying to tell us...
quote:Agree 110%!!!!
Originally posted by haley10: Who's being fooled anyway? Just marketing hype they all do. Some of the Castrol and M1 commercials on TV have ****** me off lately too.
True Jelly. I had a friend with a turbo who ran Syntec to 5K, changed filters and went to 10K, no problems. Go to the Castrol website and they recommend 3K changes, even on Syntec.
The oil companies are saying 3K, not the car makers. They are being stupid too maybe?
Mobil 1 only half-way alludes to extended drains and is vague.
Amsoil is trying to sell "extended drain" and everyone else is just trying to sell more "volume."
The truth is somewhere in between, I think.
Jelly - to be honest, I think those "calculations" are hoakem too. The first time I saw that I knew it was not something I would push.
I agree that the economics are a push...but I think if we are allowed to bring everything into it, what about the waste oil stream?
The last time I was at Shucks (Saturday) the cheapest oil they had was $1.79 or so. Most were over $2...for DINO oil!
Amsoil DOES need to be a LOT more clear that NOT all cars can go 25K. They do have the table and some knowledgeable dealers, but they need to have more disclaimers.
Shipping isn't as bad as most people think plus those of you that can pick it up at the local distribution centers pay nothing for transport.
I use synthetic, but with most cars, I agree it's not necessarily cheaper, even when you extend the OCI.
Many cars can do 5,000 miles on a good dino.
25,000 miles/5,000 miles = 5 oil changes
5 changes*5 quarts/change=25 quarts of oil
25 quarts of Chevron Supreme * $1/qt = $25
5 Supertech filters * $3= $15
Total $40 for 25K
(Don't like 5,000 mile OCI? 4,000 mi OCI still comes out cheaper)
AMSOIL recommends 25,000-mile/1-year drain intervals.
Re calculate it based on 12000 miles a year, thats the average usage for most drivers. My old truck has seen an average of 14000 miles a year, Amsoil would not have saved me money. It has seen AC filters and the cheapest oil (right now Wallymart 10w40) I could find with the right sunburst logo. Its an 88 with 228000 and still doesn't burn oil. Another thing to consider is if you don't put on close to 25k per year, your throwing money away. I can change oil five times a year with wallymart oil and still be money ahead.
[ May 31, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Bob Woods ]
I use Amsoil in all my vehicles. The only problem I have with them is the API Certification. If I were to have a engine problem and the dealer asked me for all my oil and filter receipts I would have to show him Amsoil receipts. All they would have to say is that I didn't use an API certified oil and deny my warranty. My owners manual clearly states to use API certified oil only. So for this reason I'm going to start using Mobil 1, and change the oil when the oil change light come on.
quote:It certainly causes you to question any of Amsoil's claims.
Originally posted by Pablo: Why is it untruthful? Maybe not all cars, all cases, but... 25,000 Miles Maybe amortize the $200 over the life of the car, so the cost will be a tad more.
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It's simply marketing. Every oil company does it. I think a penzoil bottle (one of them) has 3000/3month as part of the logo.
It's like anything else, "restrictions and conditions apply".
I would not go out of my way to trash Amsoil for this assertion alone. It is as genuine or disengenuous as "3000/3month" for Penzoil (or was that QS?). You don't believe GM, Ford, DC, MB, BMW, Toyota, Honda or Mitsubishi when they tell you that a 7500 - 15000 OCI is possible. They too are promoting savings in the terms of "avoided costs".
quote:Read fifth post above.
Originally posted by Gary Allan: I would not go out of my way to trash Amsoil for this assertion alone.
Technicaly Jelly you could possibly run 25K on Amsoil (and M1) without a bypass filter if you closely monitored your engine with UOAs and had just right driving condtions to boot.
If Amsoil came out swinging with more realistic numbers, their cost comparison would look much less appealling, however they would easily be able to acheive their goals. Say they set a 12K OCI. Their cost comparison would be about equal with dino, but they could play on the other beneifts of syn oil and the ecological benefits too.
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quote:...or not.. If most of us here went on the max OCI recommended by the manufacturer, I assert that you may see NO MORE wear than going 25k/1 year. That is, for a vehicle that boast a 15k/1 year OCI or for that matter a 7.5k/6month OCI probably will see very little increase in wear if run to 1 year with a good synthetic. This does NOT mean that it will have a stellar UOA ...just that it will probably be reasonably comparable to a "regular" oil in performance and wear protection over the extended time/mileage interval. No one here appears to ever test the factory OCI to see what "typical" wear really is under the prescribed conditions set forth by the car manufacturer. Hence you have no index for comparison (problem engines are exempt). Suppose 100 ppm of iron, copper and Pb were "typical" for a car using the appropriate weight dino for the prescribed OCI?? I would think that a good synthetic would match that performance on an annual OCI.
Technicaly Jelly you could possibly run 25K on Amsoil (and M1) without a bypass filter if you closely monitored your engine with UOAs and had just right driving condtions to boot.
If you used the norm of 15,000 miles in a year that would encompass most drivers that would bring it to 5 changes with dino or 25 quarts of oil (1.50/quart is way overpriced without tax) but I will go with it so that is $37.50 plus $25 for the filters or 62.50/year. You can get a great oil for less then $1.50/quart as well as a filter for less then $5. So, basically about even for the average driver. The Amosil pricing, unfortunately, is about right. People using synthetics do not (IMO) use them for the short term cost savings.
Now, let's not even talk about the cost of analysis, or additives etc. Like all advertising, to a degree misleading but there is no truth to be found in any advertising or product description or warranties anymore. Buyer beware is the word of the day!
Why is it that everybody argues over $10 or $20 saved when using synthetics or mineral oil?
If you buy your "dino" oil cheap at Schucks or Autozone (replace with your favorite auto parts store) and use coupons and change the oil yourself you will almost always come ahead pricewise.
Most people don't keep their cars long enough to find out whether using synthetics would have made a difference in the life of the engine.
$50 or even $100 a year is negligible compared to the average price of todays cars/trucks/SUVs.
It comes down to choice and affordability.
One person needs a Ford Excursion, I need a Toyota Echo.
We have 4 vehicles in the family. 2 cars, 1 pickup truck and 1 motorcycle.
Using synthetics in our case means at least 10 oil changes not done per year. This means I have another day to spend doing what I want (golfing, the beach, riding my bike, etc).
We all know that a 25k per year OCI is only possible for a small percentage of vehicles and only under close to ideal conditions.
Of course AMSOIL is pulling our collective leg with their advertising. But we are smarter and know that the truth is out there, just not in their entirety and not neccesarily on the Amsoil website (or the competition's).
Guys and gals, take it easy and use whatever method works for you. Nobody is forcing you to use either option (synthetic or dino).
quote:Even if you are right, doing so would blow the Amsoil marketing "analysis" out of the water. They are comparing a very conservative 3,000 mile OCI with an agressive 25,000 mile OCI. My Volvo, for example, specifies 1 year/10,000 mile OCIs by the factory book. My Honda specs 6 months/7,500 miles. Amsoil says 1 year/25,000 miles for all vehicles with an oil filter change and top up at 6 months. Amsoil's economic argument is highly suspect. It is also strange that Amsoil considers all engines and use conditions to be equivalent. Their BS really gets my blood boiling
If most of us here went on the max OCI recommended by the manufacturer, I assert that you may see NO MORE wear than going 25k/1 year
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JohnI dont doubt it. I am not saying if you use amsoil your going to destroy your cat. The problem might be so suttle that your cat would not have effects from it until it had 2 million miles blown through it. I was just saying why they are not API approved. Chances of it causing a problem are slim to none is what i hear. You just have to make a decision, if you feel this added protection is worth voiding your warrantee then its fine, or if your car is no longer under warr. Then its also fine. Im not Bias in any way, i was just clearing up why amsoil extended drain oils are not approved. I personally Use Mobil 1 because its so easy to find and tests are so marginal between these two oils. I have also had great sucess with 400k+ on my truck with 10k changes with M1.
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