Amsoil ATM 10W-30, Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30, or Redline 10W-30 in a Honda S2000

Messages
12
Location
Texas
I'm just about to roll over the 10,000 mile mark in my Honda S2000 and am about to make the switch over to synthetic but am having some problems deciding which oil to go with. The manufacturer specifies 10W-30 in this engine unlike most other Honda's which I believe are now 5W-20. My main question is would I benefit at all from the Series 2000 over the ATM? Is it that much better of an oil to justify the extra $2-3 per quart? How does Redline stack up to these two in your opinion? Also, if someone has a better suggestion for this high revving engine aside from the three I have selected below, please feel free to throw out your opinion. One more thing...the engine in the S2000, due to its high strung nature, has been known to eat a little oil from time to time. I frequent a discussion forum pertaining to this car and I have read many threads where some owners state that their consumption tapered off over time while others still have to add oil between every oil change. My engine goes through about half a quart every 3,000 miles or so right now. Do you think it would be ok to make the switch over to synthetic or do you think it would compound the problem due to the more slick nature of synthetics? Amsoil ATM Amsoil Series 2000 Redline 10W-30
 
Messages
34,038
Location
Southern NJ
Most know how I feel about S2k. Amsoil's 10w-30 and 5w-30 are excellent oils and have shown to be every bit as good. I would highly consider Mobil 1 10w-30 though. There is an excellent report (UOA) with M1 10w-30, one of the best on here actually. Doesn't get much better then this report below with M1. http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000750 [ December 29, 2003, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 
Messages
413
Location
Marietta, GA
Amsoil ATM 10w-30 gives you the best bang for $$$ of the three. The S2k is good but for the comparable price, Redline 10w-30 would get my vote. The debate is extended drain of the S2k versus the protection of a Group 5 oil with a good additive package.
 
Messages
1,781
Location
New England, USA
The S2000 manual also recommends 5W-40. Mobil's website recommends their M1 0W-40 and when asked, their techs also recommend Delvac1 5W-40. I have 11K miles in my S2K and just went to the M1 0W-40 as it is easy to find. I will switch to the Redline 5W-40 at the next change and stick w/ that. I am a bit nervous about 10W-30 in that motor. Great car though, excellent choice! W&w
 

cvl

Messages
150
Location
Indiana
Delvac would be great. GC is also very close to a 0w-30 and would likely work very well in that motor. It's also very easy to find and relatively inexpensive from Autozone.
 
Messages
34,038
Location
Southern NJ
I should add though that Series 2000 would probably be a great choice here. It just depends on the engine with certain oils it seems. [Smile] [ December 29, 2003, 08:41 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
 

AP1_F20C

Thread starter
Messages
12
Location
Texas
Thanks to all that have replied so far. Wings & Wheels...what year S2000 do you have? I went back and looked over my owner's manual, to verify what you said about them stating that 5W-40 was also ok, and I can't seem to find it. Mine is a 2003 model and I'm wondering if this may be something they changed since the car was first released. If you have some spare time would you mind finding out what page in the manual states this? I would appreciate it. I'm also curious as to why you have your doubts about 10W-30 in this engine? You have me worried now because all I have used so far has been Castrol GTX 10W-30. Please elaborate if you get a chance.
 
Messages
34,038
Location
Southern NJ
I could see where a 10w-30 would only be recommneded due to no VII's used. This is one good thing about a nice 10w-30 oil. Amsoil ATM or M1 I'm sure would be excellent in this engine. Oils like S2k though, might hardly use any VII. That is something the Amsoil reps would have to answer. A weak 0w-30 like Mobil 1, would shear down quite a bit I bet.
 
Messages
68
Location
Seattle
AP1, I presume you frequent S2ki.com? Glad you made the choice to join here. [Welcome!] Firstly, tell us about your driving habits day to day and on weekends? Temps, duration of high rpms, redline bursts etc... As you will see, this should be understood first before selecting a oil. Even if your conditions have you putting around [Dummy!] [No no] , I would still chose RL due to its ester base, which will keep your internals (rings) free of deposits, which will hinder performance down the road. Amsoil and M1 are group IVs so their cleaning abilities are limited to their detergents. However, if you drive the car as it was designed, then RL hands down. The shear stability that is needed at 9Krpm requires RL imho. Secondly, based upon my empirical data (UOA) on my DC2 Integra, using RL, I would go with RL. Another user, Pyromaster, who has a TYPE R, uses RL as well and he tracks the car nearly 200 miles each interval with results similar to Mobil 1 with no track miles, testament to RL shear stability and viscosity retention under the most grueling conditions. I would hate to see M1 with that many miles on the track in a Type R, especially a F20C that sees the track. [SPAZ!] In my view, Amsoil is marketed towards extended drain intervals and more general means of transportation, not a sports car that redlines at 9K rpm. [freaknout] However, Amsoil is a reputable brand and a quality oil as well but the decision to chose one oil over another should be based upon the application to begin with then analysis of the oils to meet the criteria would take place after the main requirements, application, environmental conditions have been satisfied. If you had an Accord or Civic, then M1 or Amsoil might be a more cost effecitve choice. I hope I have given you an excellent argument on which oil to use in Honda's masterpiece of engineering [Smile] So, in summary, reasons for RL over Amsoil and M1:
  • RL's ester base for cleaning abilities and extended use bonding (e.g. plating during storage)
  • shear stability and viscosity retention for high rpm use
  • Guess what RealTime racing and Mugen use in their DC2 and DC5 'tegs?
  • Data on B18C motors posted here with track time
  • S2ki.com sells RL for an excellent price to members!
Feel free to fire away any questions at all! Phew, I should be a spokesperson for RL. [Phone] P.s. I have a 03 Berlina which will see RL at 10K, maybe a bit sooner since I cannot imagine dino oil in there during redline. [Freak]
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
I'd use either the Series 2000, 0w-30 or the excellent Redline 10w-30 in this application ...Either will work well. You may see a bit more Pb and Cu/Sn wear with Redline, given the particular metallurgy Honda uses for their bearings. I don't have a good explanation for this, but I've noticed it in a number of Honda/Acura motors. I would NOT use the Amsoil 10w-30, it won't work as well as the S2000; given the operating parameters of this motor. I actually think the S2000, 0w-30 is the more shear stable of the two Amsoil formulations. The S2000 also reduces friction, heat and wear better in any high performance application, and will provide the lowest oil consumption. I'd recommend a 7500 mile/6 month change interval with the Amsoil 0w-30. I'm not qualified to advise you on the Redline product...I'd talk to Terry Dyson about that. Ted K. Dixie Synthetics (256) 882-0768, eves after 7pm, CST
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
I should add that I've see folks, road and drag racing with the Amsoil 0w-30 in Japanese motorcycles that turn 12,000+ rpms, so I think it's fine for any car engine ... Some of these applications are posted on the Amsoil website, in the "satisfied customers" section. Ted
 
Messages
34,038
Location
Southern NJ
quote:
In my view, Amsoil is marketed towards extended drain intervals and more general means of transportation, not a sports car that redlines at 9K rpm
When you look at how these oils are made in terms of chemistry, RL is clearly the more performance oriented oil. Amsoil/M1 are more street/general/extended drain oils. They do however show great results with most cars but I'd agree and say RL should be better in racing applications. Although there is arguement against this as we have seen some pretty iffy RL reports. [Smile]
 
Messages
1,781
Location
New England, USA
I have a 2001 S2K. The 5W-40 recommendation is on the same temperature chart as the 10W-30 in the owners manual and I believe it is also in the Honda service manual I bought from Helm. My owners manual is the "updated" one that includes different spak plug and torque recommendations from the originals, but I don't know if the oil specs. changed. I am nervous about the 30 weight considering the rpm range that the car can (should!!) be driven in. With the quality 5W-40 synthetics available, I just do not see the benefits of anything less except for mileage...and I am assumning that is not the main reason for your owining an S2K. Granted many competition cars use 30W or lighter oil, but they are generally not as concerned w/ longevity as opposed to reducing pumping & friction losses. On the other hand, my heavy oil bias could result from a youth mis-spent around too many leaky Triumphs, MG's and old Pipers.... [Wink] The Redline tech indicated their 10W-40's viscosity was higher than a 10W-30 and didn't recomend that oil except in warmer weather. He recommended their 5W-40. Good luck!, W&w
 
Messages
80
Location
CANADA
quote:
Originally posted by Jay: With that engine low NOACK volatility should be a strong consideration.
Jay, any specific recommendation? What's worked best for your RSX?
 
Messages
5,785
Location
Dixie
If this was a motorcycle engine, the viscosity recommendation would be a 10w-40 petroleum oil. However, in that case they'd expect the oil to shear, due to high heat and the common transmission/engine sump. A shear stable xw-30 synthetic will work extremely well in the Honda and give you more power, as well as lower oil temps ....The Redline 5w-40 is an excellent oil, but the HT/HS viscosity is 4.7 Cp - that's way too thick to get the best performance out of this motor .... Tooslick Dixie Synthetics
 
Messages
809
Location
Granville, Ohio
I've got an '03 S2000 as well, AP1_F20C. Great car!! I'm going with Amsoil ATM 0W-30 and I'm in the process of setting up an Amsoil dual remote bypass filter system in it. There's room just under the heat shield near the existing oil filter to mount this setup, and will keep my oil much cleaner. I'll feel better about extended drain intervals this way.
 
Messages
68
Location
Seattle
quote:
The Redline 5w-40 is an excellent oil, but the HT/HS viscosity is 4.7 Cp - that's way too thick to get the best performance out of this motor ....
Totally agreed. Their 5w40 is 15.1 at 100 C! [freaknout] That is thicker then their 10w40 at 14.6! That would be extremely thick and not necessary at all, which would hinder performance and mileage. RL 5/10-30 have a HT/HS Cp of 3.8 (new formulation), which is the highest I know of for these weights. HT/HS should be a top factor for this motor. I do remember that when Honda first released the S, they stated to use 5w-30. [Eek!] [SPAZ!] . They then replaced the recomendation with 10w30 since no dino oil would withstand the piston speeds of this motor. This may have been for the North American market only, however, since Australia recommends to change the oil at 600 miles while US states to wait at least 3750 miles. To this day, I still have not discovered why this is. [Confused] The 5w30 may have been one of the factors (theory) associated with some of the #4 piston issues when it was introduced. [ December 31, 2003, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: RC211V ]
 
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