Amsoil & API Certs

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The fact that many of the more popular Amsoil syn oils lack the API donut certification seems to be a minor issue on the BITOG forum. But on other sites, if the manual, for automotive or OPE equipment, lists a specific API grade engine oil, the users generally shy away from Amsoil based on fears of a denial of warranty repairs. Does anyone have an example of an oil related warranty claim where the owner was required to pay the repair bill due to using Amsoil or any non-API oil?
 
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No. Hasn't happened. Also, ALL of Amsoil's oils exceed (by a long way) the performance portions of the API tests. Lastly some of Amsoil's lower cost oils are API certified.
 
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Pablo is correct. The API only lowers the quality of oils IMO. As long as companies like Amsoil and Redline don't comply, they will continue to make the best oils you can buy.
 

Blue99

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I'm aware of the issue surrounding API max limit of zinc, syn vs. dino volatility & accumulations in cat converters. Thank you. Pablo - So, basically, when the slings & arrows are trotted out, your response is "warranty claims are virtually non-existent"? This fear of a lack of warranty protection is a big issue with users that have little working knowledge of motor oil chemistry.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by darkdan: *cough* search *cough* http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001127 =)
Thanks, I knew I had seen that thread somewhere. Some Amsoil sales reps claims that the Magnesun (sp?) act protects consumers when they use non-spec oils is more outragous than claims I have seen made by genuine snake oil salesmen. Amsoil seems like it's a good product, you would think the simple truth would be enough to sell it.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Blue99: This fear of a lack of warranty protection is a big issue with users that have little working knowledge of motor oil chemistry.
It's also abig issue with anyojne who know what it's like to get in a finger pointing exercise between two corporataion. Even if the non-spec Amsoil isn't at fault, if the car manufactuerer sez neener-neener you did't use API spc oil, tough luck, the car owner is up a creek. Quite frankly, if I were running the car company and customers were using non-spec oil, I wouldn't spend much effort to find out if their desire to put un-speced fuild in my engines did the engine in or not. OTOH, if I were running a botique oil company, i would be completely above board about the risks os running afoul of the automakers warranty beureuocracy if they used my superior but non-spec oil. Honesty really is the best policy in the long run.
 
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If anyone is really concerned about warranty infringement (a warranty that requires an SL oil) they should just use an SL oil. Some warranties are not worded as strictly as people think. They really aren't. Amsoil's warranty stands. If the oil causes the failure, then Amsoil replaces the engine. To my knowledge this hasn't happened, and really doesn't happen much with any oil. Toyota tried [Smile] ...but that's a whole different thread. (hint Toyota, sludge)
 
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quote:
Originally posted by Pablo: Amsoil's warranty stands. If the oil causes the failure, then Amsoil replaces the engine. To my knowledge this hasn't happened, and really doesn't happen much with any oil. Toyota tried [Smile] ...but that's a whole different thread. (hint Toyota, sludge)
The real issue is not whether Amsoil or Redline use will void a warranty, if you use these oils you will win in the long run the question simply is are you willing to fight the dealer and manufacturer over months to years to get your engine repaired. You may have to bring in experts like Terry etc. YOU WILL WIN, is it worth the hassle is the issue. With all due respect Pablo, the Amsoil warranty is not worth the paper or bandwidth it is stated on. It has NEVER paid off and never will. Amsoil can only pay off if the oil was formulated wrong at the factory and you must prove that. In all other cases it IS ALWAYS the engine that was not operating properly and/or it was a design failure. I totally disagree with Amsoil on the Toyota users that had sludged enignes and used Amsoil thinking they could go over 7500 miles between changes. Amsoil did not hold up much better then the dinos yet Amsoil claimed it was engine defect. Sorry, they should have either paid off or admitted that the oil when used in these sludge monsters should not be used for long extend drains. Be up front and tell the consumer but no, they were too fearful of their marketing hit on the 25,000 mile between changes scenario.. No, Amsoil sat back and said engine defect. The engines performed fine if the oil was changed in accordance with the manufacturers specs! It wan not changing the oil or going extended drains that killed the engiens. Again, if the oil must be proven to be defected from the factory the warranty can never pay off, will always always be engine not operating properly or bad engine design!!!! Their oil can never be proven to be the casue of the failure! With that said, I use it but if someone is fearful of the hassle of a warranty issue then use the dealer for changes and keep the documentation. Sorry, this warranty issue really gets to me! [ March 14, 2004, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
 
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It has been my experfence that 95% of service managers aren't even aware the IS an API licensing program ... [Wink] A small percentage of new car owners actually read the manual and do look for "starburst" rated, gas engine oils .... Amsoil clearly meets the performance parameters of API SL and CI-4 in terms of wear & deposit limits, as illustrated by their 10w-30 in a triple length Sequence IIIF test ..... The phosphorus levels in their 5w-30/10w-30 have recently been reduced and they could probably license this formulation if their was a ROI in doing so .... Tooslick
 
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quote:
Originally posted by TooSlick: A small percentage of new car owners actually read the manual and do look for "starburst" rated, gas engine oils ....Tooslick
I will bet that 95% of new car owners never open the manual!
 
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Spector...with all due respect, the Toyota sludge issue was a Toyota issue....Amsoil (and other synthetics) do much much better than dinooil in these engines. I think Amsoil has gone a long way by buying at least one Toyota crate engine to see what they can find out (about the engine and improving their oils) You can say what you want (repeatably) about the Amsoil warranty but it stands as any other warranty. It's not worthless, but it's not a license to line up for free engines either.
 
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Something to think about Those technicians get paid very little for warranty repair . For example it pays 1.9 hours to replace the torque converter in a 4wd Jeep . What it pays to R&R various engine assemblies I don't know but certainly it's little compared to CP " customer pay " . While they are tied up doing large warranty jobs they are losing good paying jobs that they can flat rate because some are very fast at what they do . I can see where they would be the first to scrutinize a possible engine warranty issue and bring it to the service managers attention . Once it is in the field reps hands it's out of the customers for the most part . Guilty till proven innocent [Smile] In the scheme of things one engine replacement can cost as much as 150 smaller repairs or adjustments under warranty .
 

MolaKule

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quote:
This fear of a lack of warranty protection is a big issue with users that have little working knowledge of motor oil chemistry.
Which was one of main ideas behind Bob and Terry establishing BITOG. The original aim was to cut through the Hype and Educate the consumer.
 

Blue99

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Moly - IMHO, that original goal was met with exponential success! I'm always amazed by the constant theoildrop.server links showing up at other sites for oil related questions. From the API License list, these retail chains all have an SL grade 10W-30 oil that is licensed to display the API donut: Ace Hardware Corp. Albertsons Inc. Hardware Wholesalers Inc. (Do-It-Best) I actually think the fact that a consumer can walk into a hardware store & purchase a quart of a house brand 10W-30 oil with an API donut makes the Amsoil position on API certs even weaker. Briggs & Stratton now specs 5W-30 & 10W-30 synthetics GF-2 and SJ/CF or higher in B&S small engines. Granted this market is not the size of automotive motor oils, but if Amsoil would only invest in the API cert, the number of homeowners willing to plunk down $6 for a quart to put in their new yard toy would certainly generate a ROI on the investment.
 

Blue99

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Awright, my issue is resolved. The XL7500 series is API licensed/certified. The XL-7500 10W-30 product info on the Amsoil website uses the same "meets or exceeds" verbage in reference to specs as the other lines of oils. The API certification is not mentioned. Discovered an Amsoil press release that covers the cert issue for this product. In the future, I'll reference this link for any users nervous about warranty coverage. Thanks!
 
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