Amsoil and NOAK

[Motorbike]

I just saw where they use the DIN 51581 method for determining NOAK Volatility for their 0w-30 and ATM 10w-30 whilst they use ASTM D-5800 for the PAO 5w-30 " don't know the designation " and the group III XL line of oils .

I did not check the other oils but was wondering what the differences are in these two type procedures and why they use two different ones being the ASTM D-5800 and DIN 51581 .

I'd kinda like to know for comparison sake when looking at other oils like Redline ect .

 

[Motorbike]

Here is the NOAK of the 10w-30 Valvoline Maxlife Synthetic " group III "

8.31 @ 250c

Which procedure would that be . That is all the info given on that oil

 

[buster]

Does anyone have a clue as to how Amsoil is achieving such great NOAK numbers?

Most of their oils are now below 6% which is better the RL and I believe the best their is. Are they using higher quality PAOs that are less volatile or better carrier oils? The new AFL has a NOAK of 5.5% which is outstanding. Maybe esters?

 

[TooSlick]

Motorbike,

Its the same test ....The Noack Volatility test originated in Europe, where it was called "DIN 51581". Note: The DIN is similar to the ASTM in the US - The American Society for Testing of Materials. When the Noack test became a US standard, it was designated "ASTM D-5800".

The sample of test oil is weighed and held @ 250C/482F for 1 hour. A slight vacuum is pulled on the sample to draw off any oil vapors. At the end of the hour, the sample is re-weighed and the weight loss in terms of a percentage is the Noack score of the oil....

Buster,

Some of the newer, "do-decene" based PAO's have much lower evaporation rates than the first generation, "1-decene" based fluids. For example, a 5 Cst, do-decene PAO has a Noack volatility that is approx 50% lower than a 4 Cst, 1-decene fluid. The low temp properties of these are such that both are suitable for formulating 5w-30 or 5w-40 grades.

The do-decene based PAO's also have higher viscosity indexes, so they require less polymeric thickener. Some of what burns off at high temps is this polymer ....This is one reason why the 0w-40 and 5w-50 grades tend to do poorly on the Noack test.

For a given SAE grade, Noack Volatility correlates well with oil consumption in actual service, so it's one of the more useful bench tests.

TS

 

[buster]

Thanks TS.

I received AFL today and that will be next. 5.5% Noak and a 40wt might eliminate consumption all together.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

Just thought I'd point out a misconception about the name of the test. A lot of people spell NOACK in all caps like that. It is actually the last name of the European scientist, K. Noack, who developed the test in the 1930s.

 

[haley10]

Does this blow the theory that EM will not sell their best basestocks to others??

Some have used this theory to say M1 is better than Amsoil, but it doesn't make economic sense to me, considering the selling price.

We know what the Noack is for each product.

 

[buster]

quote:

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Does this blow the theory that EM will not sell their best basestocks to others??

---

EM and Amsoil are in business together when you think about it. Amsoil changes suppliers as often as they want, but they have always used EM basestocks from what every Amsoil person has ever told me. They could even be using Chevron PAO now. More Amsoil sells, the more $$ EM receives.

I don't know if EM sells all their top tier PAO to others or not. The Raw materials are just one aspect of it though. The formulation process then takes over and it's possible that Amsoil chemists have ways to lower the Noak. Who knows...

All I know is that 5.5% is pretty f'n good!

[ June 05, 2004, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: buster ]