Amsoil 0W-20 brown coating/varnish on my Hondas

[Matt89]

Gents;

Haven't posted on here in awhile...but for the last 3 years I have been running Amsoil 0W-20 in my Hondas (2006 CR-V, 2006 Civic)...1 year OCIs, up to 10K miles. Did an analysis a couple of years ago and got an "all clear" from Blackstone.

I'm nearing the end of another one year interval and getting concerned about some varnishing and a softer brown oil coating visible through the filler holes and on the dipsticks of both cars.

The Civic is worse...has that orange plastic dipstick and there is a solid black substance in all the nooks and crannies of it. Looking into the filler hole it is dark, and there is a little bit of a solid substance on the filler cap threads that I can scrape off with my fingernail. Reminds me of the stuff you clean off the inner parts of a gun, but not as hard to remove. From the underside of the cap I was able to wipe off a mixture of soft brown coating and solid black residue.

The CR-V has some black crud on the filler cap threads too, and a soft brown coating on the non-contact areas under the valve cover that I can see through the filler hole. There is a flat spot just under the cap and I was able to wipe the brown crud off that with a finger to reveal silver metal. The dipstick also had a brown tint that I could wipe or scrape off.

What do you make of this? Oil cooking in the Virginia heat? I noticed the black deposits forming on the Civic's dipstick and on the filler cap almost immediately after I started using the Amsoil 0W-20...but my first analysis came back good so I stuck with it. Mistake? Or am I being paranoid?

As I said, I'm under 10K miles and just about 11 months on this interval for both cars (45K total on both). Using the EaO13 filter.

PS: I am not trying to bash Amsoil here, until I started seeing this I have been very happy with it!

 

[rclint]

This is normal on Honda's I have seen the perfectly clean engine pictures however every honda I have owned even the v-6 models will get this brown build up.. it's not varnish it's like an oil coating... It's is harmless as there is no actual build up only a staining of the substrate which is mostly aluminum...

 

[Steve S]

Can you pull a valve cover off?

 

[Gary Allan]

Not every engine will pass all purity codes. I assume you've maintained the PCV system and whatnot.

After you've assured that the PCV system is fully functional, use a bottle of AMSOIL Engine and Transmission Flush (FLSH) at the end of this OCI. Inspect for cleanliness.

At that point, either continue with the ASM 0w-20 or try another product ..any other product (M1, PU, whatever) for the same interval. Compare your results next year.

 

[simple_gifts]

I have plenty of black stuff under the filler cap, just a thin layer, but I'm not worrying. Funny thing is, when I switched to dino oil the black residue on the hole threads disappeared. FWIW, I've used M1, RL, and Amsoil for the first 220K miles of owning my car.

 

[gathermewool]

It seems kind of backwards for the OP to use an Amsoil product to clean something an Amsoil product wasn't able to prevent. If it's benign, then don't worry about it. If the build up of this residue is detrimental, then I'd consider another oil. Amsoil is expensive enough as is, with out requiring periodically spending more on flushes.

 

[stockrex]

Ouch, In my 00 accord I used to run m1 and never had deposits of any color. Just a light cider color varnish.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
It seems kind of backwards for the OP to use an Amsoil product to clean something an Amsoil product wasn't able to prevent. If it's benign, then don't worry about it. If the build up of this residue is detrimental, then I'd consider another oil. Amsoil is expensive enough as is, with out requiring periodically spending more on flushes.


Yeah ..so, as I suggested, reset it to clean and use another product. Report results.

OTOH, he could just use another product and then you can speculate that it was Amsoil that did it ..and never know ..or he could pray and use PU or some other oil that would allegedly clean it up. If it didn't ..then you could say "Well, what do you expect? That's Amsoil deposits".

..that about it?

 

[Bill in Utah]

I think Gary is correct. Something needs to be looked at on the PUV system as my Dad's (I need to take a new photo when I change his oil next week since this one is about a year old)

But this is his V6 2005 3.5 in a Vue (around 70,000 miles) and all its seen is anything 5w-20. Castrol GTX, Mobil 5000, Chevron, QS and Pennzoil YB all have been in there.

His 2001 Civic looked the same when we replaced the belt around 120k.

If his is staying clean with anything, I'd think that with ANY Amsoil the results would be the same with ease.

Bill

 

[Propflux01]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
It seems kind of backwards for the OP to use an Amsoil product to clean something an Amsoil product wasn't able to prevent. If it's benign, then don't worry about it. If the build up of this residue is detrimental, then I'd consider another oil. Amsoil is expensive enough as is, with out requiring periodically spending more on flushes.


Yeah ..so, as I suggested, reset it to clean and use another product. Report results.

OTOH, he could just use another product and then you can speculate that it was Amsoil that did it ..and never know ..or he could pray and use PU or some other oil that would allegedly clean it up. If it didn't ..then you could say "Well, what do you expect? That's Amsoil deposits".

..that about it?
There is always the chance that the "can't do wrong" Amsoil just might have... The only way he will know is if another product (Oil without any other added cleaners, like ARX or something like that), used in the same OCI's, DOES clean it up. If it does not, cannot blame the oil, but if it does... Well..

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
It seems kind of backwards for the OP to use an Amsoil product to clean something an Amsoil product wasn't able to prevent. If it's benign, then don't worry about it. If the build up of this residue is detrimental, then I'd consider another oil. Amsoil is expensive enough as is, with out requiring periodically spending more on flushes.


Yeah ..so, as I suggested, reset it to clean and use another product. Report results.

OTOH, he could just use another product and then you can speculate that it was Amsoil that did it ..and never know ..or he could pray and use PU or some other oil that would allegedly clean it up. If it didn't ..then you could say "Well, what do you expect? That's Amsoil deposits".

..that about it?
There is always the chance that the "can't do wrong" Amsoil just might have... The only way he will know is if another product (Oil without any other added cleaners, like ARX or something like that), used in the same OCI's, DOES clean it up. If it does not, cannot blame the oil, but if it does... Well..


Absolutely ..which is why I suggested that the PCV be confirmed to be in good order.

Now what would you conclude if he:

1) changed the PCV valve
2) changed to a different product
3) found that the formations were removed?

Would you lean toward "well, there you have it! Proof positive it was Amsoil leaving the brown!!"

or would you say

"Hmmm..it's inconclusive. We don't know how much of it was due to a faulty PCV system and now we'll never know (sob)"

Now what do you think is my impression of how you would lean?

When you've been spanked as many times as I have in my homegrown testing here, you tend to learn how to factor things to close as many doors on "wishful thinking" influences as possible so you don't sound like a biased fool. Now admittedly, during this trial by fire learning process you may feel like one, but the object lesson is to not be one any more ..and give some "truth in testing" integrity that will withstand peer review and not just get the result that you want.

 

[beast3300]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
I think Gary is correct. Something needs to be looked at on the PUV system as my Dad's (I need to take a new photo when I change his oil next week since this one is about a year old)

But this is his V6 2005 3.5 in a Vue (around 70,000 miles) and all its seen is anything 5w-20. Castrol GTX, Mobil 5000, Chevron, QS and Pennzoil YB all have been in there.

His 2001 Civic looked the same when we replaced the belt around 120k.

If his is staying clean with anything, I'd think that with ANY Amsoil the results would be the same with ease.

Bill


That is freaking clean!!! I wish my engines looked that clean!

/end off topic.
---
to the OP: How long do your daily drives consist of? Maybe your not getting up to full operating temp.

 

[Pablo]

Matt89 - please contact Amsoil Tech services. They need to hear this direct from you. Pull a sample or wait for a kit.

 

[garlicbreadman]

both my honda engines are free of any varnish colors.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: gathermewool
It seems kind of backwards for the OP to use an Amsoil product to clean something an Amsoil product wasn't able to prevent. If it's benign, then don't worry about it. If the build up of this residue is detrimental, then I'd consider another oil. Amsoil is expensive enough as is, with out requiring periodically spending more on flushes.


Yeah ..so, as I suggested, reset it to clean and use another product. Report results.

OTOH, he could just use another product and then you can speculate that it was Amsoil that did it ..and never know ..or he could pray and use PU or some other oil that would allegedly clean it up. If it didn't ..then you could say "Well, what do you expect? That's Amsoil deposits".

..that about it?
There is always the chance that the "can't do wrong" Amsoil just might have... The only way he will know is if another product (Oil without any other added cleaners, like ARX or something like that), used in the same OCI's, DOES clean it up. If it does not, cannot blame the oil, but if it does... Well..


Absolutely ..which is why I suggested that the PCV be confirmed to be in good order.

Now what would you conclude if he:

1) changed the PCV valve
2) changed to a different product
3) found that the formations were removed?

Would you lean toward "well, there you have it! Proof positive it was Amsoil leaving the brown!!"

or would you say

"Hmmm..it's inconclusive. We don't know how much of it was due to a faulty PCV system and now we'll never know (sob)"

Now what do you think is my impression of how you would lean?

When you've been spanked as many times as I have in my homegrown testing here, you tend to learn how to factor things to close as many doors on "wishful thinking" influences as possible so you don't sound like a biased fool. Now admittedly, during this trial by fire learning process you may feel like one, but the object lesson is to not be one any more ..and give some "truth in testing" integrity that will withstand peer review and not just get the result that you want.


Haha. That'll be the day when a web forum becomes purely objective (as much as possible, that is,) with all "home grown testing" and observations veried (and reverified by third party, independent BITOGER's) before the results ore posted. It's so much more fun to post up some pics of gunk and blame it on the oil and watch the aftermath!

In all seriousness, I agree with you when it comes to keeping things as controlled as possible. Either do as Gary said or simply switch to another oil - any oil - and see what happens.

 

[StevieC]

My engine is a "Coker" by nature and I have run Amsoil and all kinds of other oil in it (All synthetic) with nothing but spotlessly clean results.

I would imagine your breather system or something else is contributing to the problem. But do contact Amsoil, one thing is for sure they guarantee their product and stand behind it 100%

 

[Matt89]

Thanks for all the input gents.

I know this is terrible to do to you, but I will have to leave this hanging until early September...found out I am headed to the Gulf to help with the oil spill response.

I hear your points about the PCV valve, but to have the PCV systems simultaneously fail in two Hondas with
The engines in question are the 2.4L and 1.6L four-cylinders from 2006.

I may contact Amsoil as Paul suggested...I've got some time to think it over anyway. This is not an imminent failure / damage situation as far as I can tell. Really just a matter of do I feel like taking on a science project when I get back!

Thanks again.

Matt

 

[ottotheclown]

Because there are two involved, just switch them over to another like PP or PU. Why make phone calls to tech people? Two cars one problem, so keep it simple. If problem goes away in both, must be the Amsoil. Have 09 Civic and run PP. Around 3500 mi. the orange dipstick gets black. But that is what should happen.Keep it simple.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: ottotheclown
Because there are two involved, just switch them over to another like PP or PU. Why make phone calls to tech people? Two cars one problem, so keep it simple. If problem goes away in both, must be the Amsoil. Have 09 Civic and run PP. Around 3500 mi. the orange dipstick gets black. But that is what should happen.Keep it simple.


I'd hope that he does. Amsoil is serious about their oil and would LOVE to help him and find out what is going on. Plus if it helps him then maybe some others are having the same issue and they can pass it on.

Hopefully Matt after he gets done with his task down south (good luck and be SAFE!) he contacts Amsoil and keeps us informed.

Bill

 

[gathermewool]

Like he said, it's all about whether he wants to take on a science project when he gets back. I'd be curious enough to see what Amsoil had to say about it, and what they might find in an Amsoil-funded analysis. Who knows, he might even get a free OC for his troubles, especially if he can, with Amsoil's help, prove that the gunk is benign.