Ams and Molybdenum?
- Thread starter buster
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I'd suspect they like what they have and feel it isn't needed, which you can go on both sides of the fence on that one, but also Moly is expensive so imagine the cost of that oil if adding moly.. same as redline maybe?
MolaKule
Staff member
I believe it's a matter of additive levels and differing philosophy about formulated lubricants.
Amsoil depends heavily on ZDDP as the anti-wear/EP additive and PAO's and polyol esters as their FM additives.
Redline and Mobil attempts to cover all bases with PAO's, polyol and advanced esters as FM's, and moly and ZDDP as AW/EP's.
Schaeffer's doesn't use polyol esters so it depends on a mix of multifunctional additives such as moly, antimony and ELCA's to provide AW/EP and FM functionality.
I do recall being at an Amsoil meeting with my BIL and hearing Al and other's claim they would never put solids in a formulated engine oil. Of course, they also stated that none of their oils would ever contain petroleum base oils, except for minor carrier oils.
Of course, we know that has changed, too!
[ November 26, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
Amsoil depends heavily on ZDDP as the anti-wear/EP additive and PAO's and polyol esters as their FM additives.
Redline and Mobil attempts to cover all bases with PAO's, polyol and advanced esters as FM's, and moly and ZDDP as AW/EP's.
Schaeffer's doesn't use polyol esters so it depends on a mix of multifunctional additives such as moly, antimony and ELCA's to provide AW/EP and FM functionality.
I do recall being at an Amsoil meeting with my BIL and hearing Al and other's claim they would never put solids in a formulated engine oil. Of course, they also stated that none of their oils would ever contain petroleum base oils, except for minor carrier oils.
Of course, we know that has changed, too!
[ November 26, 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
I believe it should read," Amsoil tries to do the same thing ... etc not," it does as organic esters in basestock blends" because you're talking hydrodynamic vers barrier additive. The only thing comparable that I see to moly would be zddp used by amsoil.
Patman
Staff member
Official Patman prediction:
Amsoil will be using moly in it's formula within the next two years.
Mark my words.
Amsoil will be using moly in it's formula within the next two years.
Mark my words.
I agree with Patman, and Al will say he was "the first".....and the scary thing is he'll figure a way to be semantically correct....
Do I love this guy, or what?
Do I love this guy, or what?
Um....What's "FM" again?
Oz
Oz
MolaKule
Staff member
FM is Friction Modifier.
There is an explanation of FM's and AW's in the Interesting Articles thread.
Cheers!
There is an explanation of FM's and AW's in the Interesting Articles thread.
Cheers!
Patman,
Amsoil and Lubrizol work very closely to develop their additive chemistries and I don't think they feel the need to add moly, teflon, graphite or any other solid film additive to an engine oil. If/when they come out with a 0w-20 synthetic, they might add a small amount of moly as a friction modifier, but I can't see them using it across the board.
It does make sense from the standpoint of formulation chemistry to use moly in a petroleum oil with a low level of ZDDP, ie a phosphorus level < 1000 ppm. I can clearly see the benefit in that case ....
If the GF-4 oils really cap Phosphorus @ 500 ppm, then all bets are off and it will be very interesting to see what happens.
Amsoil and Lubrizol work very closely to develop their additive chemistries and I don't think they feel the need to add moly, teflon, graphite or any other solid film additive to an engine oil. If/when they come out with a 0w-20 synthetic, they might add a small amount of moly as a friction modifier, but I can't see them using it across the board.
It does make sense from the standpoint of formulation chemistry to use moly in a petroleum oil with a low level of ZDDP, ie a phosphorus level < 1000 ppm. I can clearly see the benefit in that case ....
If the GF-4 oils really cap Phosphorus @ 500 ppm, then all bets are off and it will be very interesting to see what happens.
It has been more than a few years, is there any moly in any Amsoil oils?
Took more than two years but the core line up - ASM, ASL, ATM all have Mo!!
Patman? Anything to contribute, do you remember this post?
Please, EveryOne who uses or is thinking of using Amsoil, Stop.
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