Am I right in thinking?

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European cars have very long OCIs of about 15k miles. On BMW forums enthusiasts are always saying BMW just wants to reduce maintenance costs, that they just want your car to get through warranty period and fail afterwards, and say that their OCI is "wrong". Domestic and Asian cars on the other hand have short OCIs.

Am I right in thinking that Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. spec long OCIs because they want your car to fail after warranty period? On the other hand Ford, GM, Honda, Kia, etc. spec short OCIs because they care about you, are looking out after you, and want your car to last as long as possible?
 
IMO, that is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. And actually, many of the Japanese makes have been moving toward longer OCIs nowadays... what are they up to now, 10K miles? That is the same interval as BMW, VW, and MB has in the US.

Besides, in Europe at least, the German makes are thought of as good reliable cars that last a long time, and not cars that fail right after the warranty is up.

The problem we have here in North America is that there aren't too many knowledgeable repair shops that know how to work on German cars. Those that do are few and far in between and know their worth, so the labor prices are fairly high, which translates to these cars being expensive to maintain, unless you DIY. By comparison, European cars in Europe are well... domestic, so there are plenty of knowledgeable and inexpensive mechanics to keep them running in tip top shape.
 
That argument (the one the OP has shared with us from the Euro Forums), no matter what brand it's attributed to, has always seemed like a weak one to me. Every forum has members that use it.
 
In general the BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Porsche have larger oil sumps than the Domestic & Asian brands, allowing for longer OCI as each unit of oil is less stressed in service.

There is no conspiracy to have engines grenade after warranty regardless of who designed or made the motor. Some engines are more accommodating to neglected maintenance, others not, but if you follow the manual you will almost always have a much longer relationship with your car than you really wanted.
 
The taxi MB in Germany hum happily past 1 million km with those ocis. It is normal to reject what people are not used to.

Oddly enough I'd rather chew my foot off than to own MB In US as everyone I know puts out thousands yearly in maintenance. (Just the cost of parts)
 
It is more common for the german makes to include free maintenance for the warranty period, so it would make sense for them to stretch the intervals a little as they don't need to pay for an extra 1000000 oil changes to prevent excessive wear in 1-2% of their cars outside of the warranty period.
If the manufacturer isn't paying for maintenance, then they might as well throw their dealers a bone and recommend shorter OCI's than is really necessary.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
It is more common for the german makes to include free maintenance for the warranty period,

In the US, only BMW still includes maintenance during warranty period at no additional charge.
 
Well, with my MIL's MB C320, it took 7.5 quarts to fill. It burned a full quart, if not a little more, between 7500 oil changes. M1 0w40 only for it's entire life. Probably was OK doing 15k changes with that sump and replenishment.
 
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
European cars have very long OCIs of about 15k miles. On BMW forums enthusiasts are always saying BMW just wants to reduce maintenance costs, that they just want your car to get through warranty period and fail afterwards, and say that their OCI is "wrong". Domestic and Asian cars on the other hand have short OCIs.

Am I right in thinking that Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. spec long OCIs because they want your car to fail after warranty period? On the other hand Ford, GM, Honda, Kia, etc. spec short OCIs because they care about you, are looking out after you, and want your car to last as long as possible?


If you go to Europe, the general consensus is that Japanese and Korean brands are throw away cars. If you want something that will last you years, you buy German.

My point is that there are stupid/ignorant people everywhere.
 
The industry in general has decided that maintenance is viewed by the average consumer as an inconvenience. Returning the vehicle to a dealer for maintenance is not a desirable aspect of ownership. As a result, premium vehicle customers are inconvenienced as little as possible, hence, long intervals and free maintenance.
Hyundai's program for owners of the Equus sedan relies largely on making sure that the owner doesn't ever have to set foot in the service department after purchase. The dealership is to go to pick up the Equus for service with a flatbed and deliver a Genesis sedan to use as a loaner while the vehicle is serviced. When service is complete, the dealer will return the Equus and pick up the Genesis.
Another huge part of extended intervals is to reduce total cost of ownership. Reduction of TCO make the brand more appealing to consumers, and may also justify a $70k price tag.
 
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There was some talk about sludging here too in some specific engines around 2000, in cars like GM/Saab etc, but now i see intervals at 30000 km or 2 years which is quite long. However, the cars don't seem to implode. There are a number of limiting factors of course.
Some cars use a variable schema, I hear of people only getting 18000 km out of max 30000 km for example. MB is one of them.
Most brands recommend short intervals when Severe conditions apply, like short tripping.
Large sumps has been mentioned.
ACEA or maker certification oil are much more demanding than say API
Maybe we use heavier grades too, I still can't find a 0w20 in the gas station or the auto zone equivalent here. 5w40 synthetic rules.

And: I think some people like me make an extra change in some service intervals. Problem with that is that it skewes statistics for the manufacturer a bit.
 
I dont agree. However these cars do seem to be built to fail shortly after the warranty period, but I doubt it would end up being engine/oil related issues from running a long OCI. Luxury cars typically mean higher maintenance costs.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
IMO, that is an overly simplistic way of looking at things. And actually, many of the Japanese makes have been moving toward longer OCIs nowadays... what are they up to now, 10K miles? That is the same interval as BMW, VW, and MB has in the US.

Besides, in Europe at least, the German makes are thought of as good reliable cars that last a long time, and not cars that fail right after the warranty is up.

The problem we have here in North America is that there aren't too many knowledgeable repair shops that know how to work on German cars. Those that do are few and far in between and know their worth, so the labor prices are fairly high, which translates to these cars being expensive to maintain, unless you DIY. By comparison, European cars in Europe are well... domestic, so there are plenty of knowledgeable and inexpensive mechanics to keep them running in tip top shape.



Very sensible and true post. In Europe, if you wanted to get a reliable car with long life, you bought Mercedes, sometimes a BMW. I believe for the last decade or so Audi has joined the long lasting cars list as well. But Mercedes remains on the top.

In the US we only get the luxury version of these cars. That limits their numbers on the road, which limits the number of repair shops knowledgeable about them which increases the labor premium for the shops who deal with them.

Also, there were studies that showed that the lubrication properties of oil were not linear with miles on them or age in a well designed and well maintained engine (i.e. the lubrication properties did not decrease as on a constant rate with the miles).
 
Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
European cars have very long OCIs of about 15k miles. On BMW forums enthusiasts are always saying BMW just wants to reduce maintenance costs, that they just want your car to get through warranty period and fail afterwards, and say that their OCI is "wrong". Domestic and Asian cars on the other hand have short OCIs.

Am I right in thinking that Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. spec long OCIs because they want your car to fail after warranty period? On the other hand Ford, GM, Honda, Kia, etc. spec short OCIs because they care about you, are looking out after you, and want your car to last as long as possible?


ACEA specifications in Europe are set with the car's performance needs in mind more than set government regulations. So if a European vehicle specifies A3/B3 then you know the oil is designed for High Performance, Turbos, and >15k KM drain intervals. In the US the API sets the standard for oil based often on emissions and CAFE, and not so much the performance of the engine. So an "SN" petrol oil means anything from conventional Group II oil to Extended Drain Group III and IV oils. There is no rating that determines if the oil is designed for extended OCI's. So US and Asian manufacturers selling cars in the US are stuck with thin oils with minimum standards that don't differentiate between a conventional oil and a top end synthetic. So they are going to set their OCI's to the lowest denominator. Manufacturers are starting to set minimum standards (such as Dexos 1) but they still aren't at the same levels and still have CAFE restrictions.
 
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My VW and Audi both specify 10,000 mi. OCI. With the proper oil, when I have the oil analyzed after 10,000 mi. there is always plenty of life left in the oil. Why would changing the oil more often make the engine last longer?
 
[Am I right in thinking that Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Porsche, etc. spec long OCIs because they want your car to fail after warranty period?]

This is a totally bogus argument. No manufacturer of cars would recommend long OCI's if it would ruin the engines. The reason being the marketplace is WAY too competitive and in the long term, they would be judged to have poor quality. I have never bought the "planned obsolesence argument. Manufacturers make what the market will bear in quality and costs.

And BTW, a larger sump equates to longer OCI's, simple as that.
 
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