Almost lost the engine in the A6 yesterday

[threeputtpar]

I honestly don't know if it was a TTY bolt, just that it requires to be torqued to a low value, say 20-30 ft/lbs with no degree spec after torque is reached. Edit: According to the online instruction from an Audi parts vendor, the torque on this bolt is 20Nm or just under 15ft/lbs.

Yes, I should have replaced it when I took it off to fix the coolant leak. I figured I was just over a year away from the next timing belt interval and it would be OK, but I see that I was wrong.

I'm finding a decent right angle adapter that comes with a stubby drill bit for $20 locally, so I'll probably give that a try first. I don't want any more collateral damage on the block from a Dremel.

 

[Thermo1223]

Sorry, I didn't want to sound preachy but I've fixed mistakes similar to this on VW's.

People brought me substandard parts and I refused to use them or they just didn't have it all.

When the parts did break I told them I wasn't just blowing smoke up your rear there is a reason.

A lot of timing belt jobs on TDI's were done in a similar fashion but never with good results.

If you bought a new pully they usually come with the bolt yours didn't?

 

[artificialist]

I hate timing belts, but given the risk of a stretched timing chain in the new GDI engines, I suddenly don't hate timing belts as much.

 

[MalfunctionProne]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Originally Posted By: RISUPERCREWMAN
Your a lucky Dog! That is why I'm done buying cars with timing belts!


+1 no more timing belts for me. If one breaks on you the best you can hope for is to walk home. The worst is the need to carry a new engine back to the car.


Timing chains, FTW?

 

[chrisri]

And this is why it's never a smart idea to put back old belt and tensioner. Especially if one do not work this for a living and don't have lots of experience. Many tensioners ,water pumps, cam belts are PRC made now, some are better, some are POS.
For an out of warranty car cambelt can be done for cheap. By parts on your own before change is needed.
Tensioners made by Litens (Canadian) are very good, water pumps from Hepu (German) are decent, belts from Dayco are good too. Always change water pump if it's cambelt driven when doing cambelt. Find good independent you trust or do it by your self, but today's cars often need special locking tools for camshafts. It can be done without it though if one is experienced enough.

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted By: JBinTX30
True you still walk, but your wallet takes less of a hit and you can keep your engine. I had one brake trying to start the Isuzu the water pump seized, but that was a non interference engine as well. That was the day i bought it but it ran fantastic after it was replaced.


The "Acura" I posted above is actually and Isuzu. Acura SLX/ isuzu trooper. After I did the belt again (after the dealer screwed it up), it hums softly and smoothly. I feel they must have also had it a tooth off.

Which is yet another reason why I won't let anyone else do a belt change on a vehicle I or my family drives. this get's to the argument of others 'just get a chain.' For a lot of people, i have to concur because the ability of dealerships to do belt jobs right is near zero in my small sample universe.

 

[threeputtpar]

I didn't think that you were preaching. The bolt that broke was from the roller that's been in there 50k miles, it wasn't a new part. I knew it was less than ideal to put it back in, but it appeared and sounded good (no growling bearing). All parts are OEM made in Germany or Japan. No PRC parts will go on my engine, especially timing components.

New parts will arrive today and be installed this weekend, assuming the broken bolt comes out. INA and NTN rollers and NTN lever and Dayco Belts. Thermostat is a German part.

 

[kschachn]

Even OEM parts can fail in a hurry. I put new belts on my BMW and spun the tensioners and water pump at the time to check them. They felt fine - tight and no roughness at all. Less than a year later she broke a motor mount, and while replacing the fan and shroud (and radiator), I almost didn't pull the belts to inspect the water pump because I had "just done that". I'm glad I did though, the water pump felt like it was rolling on gravel and had huge play in the shaft! It took a less than a year (and not a lot of miles) to go from "fine" to "OMG".

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
I honestly don't know if it was a TTY bolt, just that it requires to be torqued to a low value, say 20-30 ft/lbs with no degree spec after torque is reached. Edit: According to the online instruction from an Audi parts vendor, the torque on this bolt is 20Nm or just under 15ft/lbs.

Yes, I should have replaced it when I took it off to fix the coolant leak. I figured I was just over a year away from the next timing belt interval and it would be OK, but I see that I was wrong.

I'm finding a decent right angle adapter that comes with a stubby drill bit for $20 locally, so I'll probably give that a try first. I don't want any more collateral damage on the block from a Dremel.

If you have access to a MIG welder, the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to remove a broken bolt is to weld several beads on top of each other to the end of the broken bolt to lengthen it, then remove it with vise grips. If there is enough of a "nub" left of the broken bolt, you can weld a nut to the end of it. Also, the flow of electricity and the heat will break loose a corroded-in broken bolt and it will come out very easy. This beats the heck out of the "drilling & easyout" routine (which often times won't work on a corroded-in bolt) and may be your ONLY option in tight quarters if you don't want to tear everything apart to get at it. This won't damage a block or head because the welds won't stick to cast iron or aluminum. I have done this MANY times.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: threeputtpar
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
Dang man that sucks! Glad you made it home alright without losing the engine. I also suggest what L_Sludger mentioned about using a dremel to cut a notch in the bolt and backing it out with a screwdriver. Heat around the bolt is also very helpful.


That was the thought I had this morning on the drive into work. My BIL has a Dremel and I have a cordless screw gun that would fit down in there. I'm hoping I don't have to resort to a propane torch because the front of the engine is covered with oil. My wife wouldn't approve of me starting the garage on fire, but I wouldn't be too broken up at this point if the car were to mysteriously go up in flames out on the road.

Audi sure didn't have the ability to keep the oil in their engines!


Hose the area around the problem with brake cleaner first.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Even OEM parts can fail in a hurry. I put new belts on my BMW and spun the tensioners and water pump at the time to check them. They felt fine - tight and no roughness at all. Less than a year later she broke a motor mount, and while replacing the fan and shroud (and radiator), I almost didn't pull the belts to inspect the water pump because I had "just done that". I'm glad I did though, the water pump felt like it was rolling on gravel and had huge play in the shaft! It took a less than a year (and not a lot of miles) to go from "fine" to "OMG".


Maybe it's me, but lately, I am absolutely not impressed with water pump bearings! The OE pump on my Cherokee went 220,000+ miles, the one on my Dakota went 170K. Some newer designs...honestly, I would be surprised to see 70K!

 

[hsd]

Another trick to removing broken bolts is to use left hand drill bits and appropriate drill rotation. That way the bolt will back itself out of the hole as the drill bit bites in.

 

[ac_tc]

Originally Posted By: hsd
Another trick to removing broken bolts is to use left hand drill bits and appropriate drill rotation. That way the bolt will back itself out of the hole as the drill bit bites in.


+1, these drills are amazingly good.

 

[threeputtpar]

A quick update on the process:

I guess all my hand-wringing over this broken bolt was for naught, as when I went to Dremel a slot in it, it began to back out. It seems that in my hasty panic I didn't think to even touch the broken off piece and see if it was stuck or not. A little time and patience with a fingernail was all it took to get it out far enough to grab with a pliers and back it out the rest of the way.

Now I'm just waiting on USPS to deliver some replacement plastic covers from fleabay and a couple of valve cover gaskets (two sparkplug holes were filled with oil) and I'll have it all back together again. It will be nice to not have it leaking all the fluids that it was a week ago. Small children and coolant on the garage floor don't mix well.

 

[L_Sludger]

Good deal dude!

 

[Thermo1223]

Good outcome!

 

[threeputtpar]

IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!

Got it all buttoned up last night and it fired right up on the first try. It made some minor noises at first while the new timing parts ran in and found their new homes, and then it smoothed right out and was very quiet.

Tonight will be the shake down run and then it's back to daily duty. I've been driving my mum's Impala and also my MIL's Impala. Decent cars, but very boring to commute in. I miss the instant torque of the twin turbos, and so do my two young sons.