All this fuss over Mobil's new Extended Performance oil
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Thanks G-man! But it's new and hey, oil is exciting!
It even got Al's attention. His opening drivel this month was fully dedicated to these oils.
It even got Al's attention. His opening drivel this month was fully dedicated to these oils.
Pablo,
I predicted this...
link: bobistheoilguy
Mobil writes that these Long Drain oils have more additives then their current Mobil 1 lineup, which means as a whole, there is less lubricant in the bottle, it looked to me that some UOA's show Mobil 1 oils doing well for long drains without the help of extra additives.
Also, the new Mobil 1 oils do not meet the GF-4
approvals, does this mean the car owner has to wait until the car is out of warranty before using these new Mobil 1 oils?
Because Mobil could be setting itself up for lawsuits if a cat is ruined while running their oil, that is if the additive that has been bumped up is Phos.
I know some of us think the cat & phos issue is a bunch of hogwash, just asking the question.
[ January 21, 2005, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Bill ]
I predicted this...
link: bobistheoilguy
just saw Al's article last night
Mobil writes that these Long Drain oils have more additives then their current Mobil 1 lineup, which means as a whole, there is less lubricant in the bottle, it looked to me that some UOA's show Mobil 1 oils doing well for long drains without the help of extra additives.
Also, the new Mobil 1 oils do not meet the GF-4
approvals, does this mean the car owner has to wait until the car is out of warranty before using these new Mobil 1 oils?
Because Mobil could be setting itself up for lawsuits if a cat is ruined while running their oil, that is if the additive that has been bumped up is Phos.
I know some of us think the cat & phos issue is a bunch of hogwash, just asking the question.
[ January 21, 2005, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Bill ]
Mobil won't be liable in any way for emmision system harm; read their legal mumbo jumbo. Plus, it'd be the consumers fault anyway for using in place of the OEM recomended oil.
Question : Will the next one have something to say about what Castrol did to counter these new offerings from Exxon/Mobil ?quote:
Originally posted by Bill:
just saw Al's article last night
We don't expect them to take this news lying down now do we ?
Or do we
These new EP oils still meet API SL and presumably GF-3, which I believe most 2005 and older cars back to API SJ still require as a minimum for warranty purposes.
Does anyone know of a 2005 model that requires API SM and GF-4?
Yeah, I've seen those. Those are funny.quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
Don't be too sure. Castrol's "Start Up" oil has already had an effect of Valvoline. I was in Wal-Mart last night getting the oil for my upcoming change and I noticed all the regular Valvoline bottles had stickers on them that said in BOLD letters "Protects At Start Up."
Of course, my reaction to that was
PZ, Castrol, and Valvo all have interest in the quick lube industry, although Castrol less.
I just don't see the corporate lawyers approving either. Better to counter extended drains by scaring the public about the wisdom of it and selling more product and services for the mass market. Sorry.
Well, depends on what rings our bell, I guess! I noticed many, many comments when the Amsoil 5W-40 "European" came out. (And I couldn't think of any real advantage for it over Amsoil's old reliable, the 10W-30, for my cars). Myself, couldn't get enough info on the $1.17/qt. Mobil Drive Clean faux syn blend. Because I'm so cheap. Then again, many could care less about the MDC, but wanted all data on the MDC+. Yada, yada.
Mobil is Bold. Kudos to them.
Mobil is Bold. Kudos to them.
Oh come now -- if this was bobistheneedlepointguy.com, I could understand your being perplexed, but with this crowd the way it is, you had to expect this sort of reaction!quote:
Originally posted by G-Man II:
We can already buy PCMOs that have 36% more AW additives and 37% more detergent additives. They are called "High Mileage" oils.
Whine whine whine......
Bill, do you sell Amsoil?
Either the Mobil 1 GF-4 is depleted to the point it's not that good of a long drain oil or Mobil is just finally going to go all out push long drains. Redline is now on the shelf and maybe they are trying to compete with them.
Bill, do you sell Amsoil?
Either the Mobil 1 GF-4 is depleted to the point it's not that good of a long drain oil or Mobil is just finally going to go all out push long drains. Redline is now on the shelf and maybe they are trying to compete with them.
I order and use Amsoil in my vehicles
I don't expect them to take it lying down, but I doubt they will promote similar product with the same kind of marketing.quote:
Originally posted by Motorbike:
Question : Will the next one have something to say about what Castrol did to counter these new offerings from Exxon/Mobil ?quote:
Originally posted by Bill:
just saw Al's article last night
We don't expect them to take this news lying down now do we ?
Or do we
Castrol as promoted the 3k/3 so long and/or their Labcheck services, that I doubt it.
Don't be too sure. Castrol's "Start Up" oil has already had an effect of Valvoline. I was in Wal-Mart last night getting the oil for my upcoming change and I noticed all the regular Valvoline bottles had stickers on them that said in BOLD letters "Protects At Start Up."
Of course, my reaction to that was
Here's an interesting question ....
If you take a very similiar basestock and simply increase the additive "treat" rate by 1/3, do you get better engine protection from wear/deposits, or simply an oil that holds up better over long drains???
I suspect the latter, which is why I'm not losing any sleep over this new M1 product. I predict that unless this stuff performs significantly better in controlled bench testing - ie the infamous 4 ball wear test - you arent' going to see any improvement in valve train and ring/cylinder wear.
The current Mobil 1 holds up just fine, but iron and chrome levels aren't as good as some competitive products. This is very noticable when comparing Mobil 1 and Amsoil in large displacement, pushrod engines that generate high iron levels for example.
Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
If you take a very similiar basestock and simply increase the additive "treat" rate by 1/3, do you get better engine protection from wear/deposits, or simply an oil that holds up better over long drains???
I suspect the latter, which is why I'm not losing any sleep over this new M1 product. I predict that unless this stuff performs significantly better in controlled bench testing - ie the infamous 4 ball wear test - you arent' going to see any improvement in valve train and ring/cylinder wear.
The current Mobil 1 holds up just fine, but iron and chrome levels aren't as good as some competitive products. This is very noticable when comparing Mobil 1 and Amsoil in large displacement, pushrod engines that generate high iron levels for example.
Tooslick
Dixie Synthetics
Ted, both RL and Mobil dismiss the 4-ball wear as not being relevant to engine wear. Redline's own testing, which I'm not saying is 100% correct either, stated that Amsoil looses it's 4-ball wear qualities after only a few hundred miles, which could be attributed totheir oxidative thickenning problems they have.
He (Roy Howell) went on to say that they add additives that are cheap and inexpensive to perform well in "bench tests". So I'm not so sure how relevant the 4-ball wear test really is in predicting engine wear in real world scenarios. We've been down this road many times before with the 4-ball wear test. I wish it were that simple bc I'd be buying Amsoil over any other oil on the market if it were so simple!
[ January 22, 2005, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: buster ]
4-ball wear test or not, I have been using Amsoil since 1976 and never wore out an engine yet. Never once had an engine problem whatsoever, so all this argument over tests is meaningless to me. I have real world experience using extended drains, all my vehicle get a 'once a year oil change' since 1976.
There comes a time when you have to take a chance on something or you are stuck in a rut forever.
There comes a time when you have to take a chance on something or you are stuck in a rut forever.
As I recall, there was a great deal of interest when the M-1R was introduced, until folks saw the $6.75/qt price. The problem is that people want to use the best oil available, but they also think it should be $19.00 on sale for a five quart jug at Walmart. The fact is that the best extended drain synlubes available today are in the $6.00-$8.00/quart range.
I'll be interested to see if Mobil is successful selling an ultra premium synthetic lube for $6.00/quart. So far the track record with their synthetic Motorcycle oils and M-1R isn't too promising. The M1 motorcycle oil has disappeared from the shelves locally and I can't find anyplace that stocks the M-1R. I'm actually rooting for this new Mobil oil to succeed, since it will make it that much easier for me to sell Amsoil and the concept of extended drain intervals ....
TS
I'll be interested to see if Mobil is successful selling an ultra premium synthetic lube for $6.00/quart. So far the track record with their synthetic Motorcycle oils and M-1R isn't too promising. The M1 motorcycle oil has disappeared from the shelves locally and I can't find anyplace that stocks the M-1R. I'm actually rooting for this new Mobil oil to succeed, since it will make it that much easier for me to sell Amsoil and the concept of extended drain intervals ....
TS
The latest Amsoil action news letter did mention that everytime someone came out with something similar to Amsoil, their sales went up. I think these EP oils will be a bit different though if they are easily found at Walmart. The M1R didn't have much need or demand, and therefore wasn't distributed to the mass market. How many people need a racing oil? Same can be said with Motorcyle oil. A mass market 15,000 mile drain oil at Walmart should make things interesting for the competition and force them to make an even better product. One advantage Amsoil will be touting is "hey we have 35,000 mile drain oil, not 15,000". But I do think as time roles on it's going to be harder and harder for Amsoil to sell with GF-4 and GF-5 making in very difficult to make a long drain oil. At some point you would think they would have to go retail.
They are retail now, albeit not on the shelves of 10,000 Walmarts..Around here just about every snowmobile/ATV dealer is an Amsoil retail account. I know one that sells about 1500-2000 worth of 2 cycle oil per month in the winter.
Back in 1973, people were saying Amsoil will never make it unless the drop their multi-level marketing and go retail. 31 yrs later they are going strong, sales have gone up every year. There prices have held steady compared to other products, car have double but not their oil. It was $4.95 a qt in 1975.
I don't think they will ever go public. If that were to happen, then some big oil company would gobble them up like was done with Pennzoil and Quaker State, to name a few. Many years back Pennzoil tried to sue them out of existence over the 'Z' on the old name, Amzoil. At one point they even offered to buy the company. But after years of legal battles, Amsoil came out on top and still was able to grow.
[ January 23, 2005, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]
TooSlick, regarding your comment "So far the track record with their synthetic Motorcycle oils and M-1R isn't too promising. The M1 motorcycle oil has disappeared from the shelves locally and I can't find anyplace that stocks the M-1R."
Mobil 1 MX4t, V-Twin and MX2T are and have been among our biggest sellers..!! Our www.avlube.com web site ships 20 to 30 cases A DAY!, in the winter, more during summer.. Same can be said for Mobil 1R.. We have sold a skid of Mobil 1R in a little over a month; not bad.. Quite a lot of the Mobil 1R going to racing teams preparing for the 24 hours of Daytona.. 20+ cases of Mobil 1R went out Friday.
Thus all are doing quite well in our area...
As for the availability of the EP Mobil 1, we are anticipating having it available on www.avlube.com in the next several weeks...
George Morrison
Mobil 1 MX4t, V-Twin and MX2T are and have been among our biggest sellers..!! Our www.avlube.com web site ships 20 to 30 cases A DAY!, in the winter, more during summer.. Same can be said for Mobil 1R.. We have sold a skid of Mobil 1R in a little over a month; not bad.. Quite a lot of the Mobil 1R going to racing teams preparing for the 24 hours of Daytona.. 20+ cases of Mobil 1R went out Friday.
Thus all are doing quite well in our area...
As for the availability of the EP Mobil 1, we are anticipating having it available on www.avlube.com in the next several weeks...
George Morrison
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