All that acid in RLI oil (Renewable Lubricants)

Messages
712
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
I've been really pleased with the RLI BioSyn 0w-30 oil that I've been using in the car for the past 6.5 months and just over 5,000 miles. I think since I received such a good UOA from Blackstone with the Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30 last year after 5,000 miles, I'll keep this RLI Renewable Lube oil in the '06 Camry for a total of 6,000 or 7,000 miles and/or 8 or 9 months before changing out the oil. Any objections? The Camry LE 4-cylinder now has 24,710 miles on it, and the RLI oil has just over 5,000 miles on it as of today. At the next oil change, I'll get a Blackstone UOA on the RLI to compare it to the PP. My second question concerns the high acidity of the Renewable Lubricants Bio-Syn oil. Since RLI is suppose to work a little like Auto-RX and clean out your engine and since my '06 car is so new and only has 24,700 miles on it, would it be better for me not to use RLI for two consecutive oil changes? Six months ago, I put into the Camry a total of 4.25 quarts of RLI 0w-30, so I have another 4.75 quarts of RLI oil left over and ready to go into the Camry for the next oil change, but I'm thinking that might be too much cleaning--and too much acidity for too long a period for such a new engine? Can all that acid have a bad effect on the rubbery-like gaskets and sealants? Maybe I ought to put Amsoil SSO into the car next, and save the 4.75 quarts of leftover RLI for another time--say 3 years from now? Sound like a good plan? Also, because of the high acidity, is it recommended that RLI be used more for older engines than newer engines? I would like my car to last at least 15 years. Schucks, I suppose 20 years would be nice too.
 
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Built_Well

Thread starter
Messages
712
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
I think eventually I'll go back to using Pennzoil Platinum 5w-30, but for now it's fun to try the more exotic oils like Renewable Lube and probably Amsoil next. Last year after 4,000 miles on the PP, I thought the engine began to sound just a little bit louder than the first 4,000 PP miles (could have just been my imagination), but I haven't been able to discern any difference in sound with the Renewable Lube oil after 5,000 miles now--and the RLI went through the winter, too. Think I'll stretch the RLI out to 6,000 or 7,000 miles because I don't like changing oil and rotating tires anymore. Twice was nice, but third time is drudgery now--heh heh :) But I'll go back to the less expensive PP eventually--very good UOA, which I posted last year.
 
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Messages
25,041
Location
ON, Canada eh?
I wouldn't see a problem with the RLI! I have used it in the past with excellent results and have some more to try again soon. Terry seems to recommend this oil highly and I would doubt he would do so if he wasn't 110% sure about the product. All the UOA's he and I have talked about have been superb with this product. IMO you can use it with confidence. \:\!
 
Messages
6,987
Location
Michigan
I am confused about this high acidity issue? Where does thos info come from? I thought oils fight acid. Do you mean it has a natural cleaning ability somehow?
 

Built_Well

Thread starter
Messages
712
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
RLI BioSyn has a high TAN number. You like your UOAs to show a higher TBN number than TAN number, but lots of RLI UOAs show the reverse. TAN = "Total Acid Number" TBN = "Total Base Number"
 
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Messages
6,987
Location
Michigan
But what does a VOA of the oil show? Are you saying it comes with a High Tan number to begin with or does the oil not resist acid well and it builds up?
 
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Messages
2,338
Location
Magnolia, TX
I have also noticed the higher TAN #'s on UOA's of RLI posted on this website. I'm not knowledgeable enough to explain how that happens with HOBS chemistry, but it does cause a concern for me. Right now I feel more comfortable with a maintenance dose of ARX in other brands of oils.
 
Messages
15,052
Location
Canada
RLI is a bit of a 'freak' of oils, and doesn't seem to follow the 'normal' behaviour of oil. It may have a higher TAN number, but it IS designed to be used on a continuos basis as a regular oil, so it isn't an issue. On a new engine especially it wouldn't be an issue, as the engine will be clean and RLI isn't 'cleaning' much up. Terry and RI-S4 have the low-down on this oil; so they are the folks to talk to....
 

Built_Well

Thread starter
Messages
712
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
 Originally Posted By: addyguy
[RLI] may have a higher TAN number, but it IS designed to be used on a continuos basis as a regular oil, so it isn't an issue.
Over the past couple years, I've seen RI-S4 mention this several times, but I would like to know *why* it is not an issue, especially since a high TAN number for other oils is an issue :-)
 

Built_Well

Thread starter
Messages
712
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Also, with all due respect to RI-S4, he sold his car after a year or two. It's not like he was planning to hold onto the car for a decade or two like me :-) [chuckle] So I gotta be extra re-assured before I use the high-TAN R.L.I. oil in my car twice in a row. At this point, I'm much more inclined to use Amsoil or Red Line for the next OCI and save my remaining RLI BioSyn for another time.
 
Messages
4,622
Location
Western Washington
 Originally Posted By: Built_Well
 Originally Posted By: addyguy
[RLI] may have a higher TAN number, but it IS designed to be used on a continuos basis as a regular oil, so it isn't an issue.
Over the past couple years, I've seen RI-S4 mention this several times, but I would like to know *why* it is not an issue, especially since a high TAN number for other oils is an issue :-)
When you hear back from Terry, please come back and post his response. I'm curious myself about this.
 
Messages
14,776
Location
Illinois
 Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Also, with all due respect to RI-S4, he sold his car after a year or two. It's not like he was planning to hold onto the car for a decade or two like me :-) [chuckle] So I gotta be extra re-assured before I use the high-TAN R.L.I. oil in my car twice in a row. At this point, I'm much more inclined to use Amsoil or Red Line for the next OCI and save my remaining RLI BioSyn for another time.
I never heard of RLI befor coming to BITOG. What is the purpose of buying such oils when great OTC oil like M1, PP, or Valv is available? Just wondering.
 
Messages
1,175
Location
Rhode Island
What are you talking about? RLI Biosyn is not a high acidity oil. RLI is a blend of PAO and HOBS bioesters. There are no issues with seals. On the RS4 I see the same spread of TAN numbers for conventional oils as I do for Biosyn for the same mileage. At the same time TBN is still high. Fuel diluting engines are awful for acid formation, and RLI is often used in high fuel diluters.
 
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Built_Well

Thread starter
Messages
712
Location
St. Louis, Missouri
Anyway, Hate2Work, Terry has a confidentiality agreement, so I wouldn't be able to tell you anyhow. You can always ask him, though. Terry's blog is only 10 dollars a month (or $100 a year, which also gets you a free UOA).
 
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Messages
2,338
Location
Magnolia, TX
 Originally Posted By: RI_RS4
What are you talking about? RLI Biosyn is not a high acidity oil. RLI is a blend of PAO and HOBS bioesters. There are no issues with seals.
It may not be a high acidity oil, but it certainly has higher TAN than other oils that I've seen you compare it to in yours and other UOA's.
 
Messages
25,041
Location
ON, Canada eh?
 Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Anyway, Hate2Work, Terry has a confidentiality agreement, so I wouldn't be able to tell you anyhow. You can always ask him, though. Terry's blog is only 10 dollars a month (or $100 a year, which also gets you a free UOA).
It's a great blog with lots of great information! \:\! I'm a member. You can also get your first month for FREE to try it out!
 
Messages
1,175
Location
Rhode Island
No, it's not. You are only seeing selected data. Here is all the data I have on the RS4, sorted from high to low TAN. The higher numbers have more to do with the particular engine, fuel used, and mileage on the oil than a particular oil. Vehicle Mileage Mileage on Oil Oil TAN Nitration TBN 25700 10050 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 5.3 16 3 20940 6066 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 4.4 11 6.4 11352 4772 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 4.26 11 5 62500 10000 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 4.26 17 2.9 16575 5223 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 4.07 13 7.2 53500 10000 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 4.02 13 3.8 14930 10130 RLI Biosyn 40W 3.88 19 3.6 13999 6822 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 3.54 14 4.7 31719 6428 RLI Biosyn 40W 3.46 13 5.3 34429 9137 RLI Biosyn 40W 3.32 14 3.8 30270 5670 Mobil 1 0W-40 3.17 15 6.5 19452 4286 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 3.1 10 7.4 35433 5200 Lubro-Moly Vollsynthese 5w40 3.06 11 4.6 4800 4800 Factory Oil 3.03 12 3.2 4958 2757 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 3 11 8.5 28765 3474 RLI Biosyn 40W 2.97 10 7.4 18309 3039 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.92 11 9 15677 5662 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.83 14 4.2 3533 1500 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.8 8 6.2 37677 5645 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.75 12 6.8 38040 6000 Castrol TXT 505 5w40 2.75 12 3.9 29578 5738 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.72 12 5.8 25291 5065 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.7 7 7 9393 2216 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.69 10 9.1 8500 3500 Mobil 1 0W-40 2.61 15 7.4 7515 2525 Castrol Syntec 5W-40 2.6 10 6.7 10015 4735 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.59 11 5.8 21780 5205 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.58 12 4 6580 4596 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.55 10 3.7 4990 2450 Mobil 1 0W-40 2.55 13 5 22030 3103 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.51 10 8.8 6900 3500 Castrol Syntec 5W-40 2.49 11 6.4 19703 4117 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.45 11 4.8 4986 3000 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.4 9 5.1 16780 1906 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.4 8 8.5 18061 2995 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.4 9 7.8 20226 5160 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.4 11 6.5 15471 597 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.38 7 9.6 10015 2500 Mobil 1 0W-40 2.37 13 7.1 36224 560 RLI Biosyn 10W-40 PCMO 2.32 9 5.8 20720 3753 Lubro-Moly Vollsynthese 5w40 2.32 10 7.1 14560 3740 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.31 10 7.3 15568 4108 Castrol Syntec 5W-40 2.29 11 7.6 29526 7800 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 2.24 15 3.8 9090 3978 Castrol Syntec 5W-40 2.21 11 6.7 30291 6900 Castrol TXT 505 5w40 2.2 11 3.7 7177 2205 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 2.17 11 8.1 14433 3803 Amsoil Euro 5W40 2.15 11 4.6 8233 2935 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 2.1 10 7.8 8080 2755 Motul 8100 X-lite 0W30 2.05 10 8.1 14779 1562 Rotella T CJ4 10W-30 2 7 6.6 9719 2477 Motul Xcess 5W-40 2 11 7.1 3067 3067 Factory Oil 2 9 4.42 11033 2453 Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 1.98 11 7.2 5112 2352 Mobil 1 0W-40 1.97 11 7.8 37442 1777 RLI Biosyn 10W-40 PCMO 1.93 11 4.1 8654 3289 Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 1.92 11 6.9 16554 1488 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 1.9 8 9 8866 51.1 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.9 9 8.9 10820 3050 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.87 11 7.9 13000 5000 Fuchs Titan GT1 5W-30 1.83 10 3.7 8225 3000 Amsoil 5W40 1.81 9 4.3 21339 1113 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 1.8 8 8.4 13682 3963 Motul Xcess 5W-40 1.8 11 6.9 12764 737 6L refreshed (3L Motul, 3L Rotella) 1.8 10 8.5 8815 143 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.75 8 9.8 12803 2803 Castrol Syntec 5W-40 1.75 10 6.8 16890 3208 Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 1.72 11 7.2 8916 40 min Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.72 8 8.9 9510 537 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.7 9 8.9 11485 3053 Amsoil 5W40 1.7 10 4.8 8916 50 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.68 9 8.8 5325 4580 Motul 8100 E-tech 0W40 1.6 11 6.9 5280 3580 Motul 300V 5W-40 1.6 11 6.5 42670 4993 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 1.51 13 4 17864 2990 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 1.5 9 7.9 7242 4175 Motul Xcess 5W-40 1.5 12 5.7 11896 2923 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.5 12 7.8 3134 1326 Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40 1.5 9 7.2 3501 2259 Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W-40 1.48 10 2.8 15738 672 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 1.4 7 9.9 2201 1591 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.3 9 8 7770 2600 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.3 11 7.2 10059 1086 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.3 10 9 17000 4500 Mobil 1 0W-40 1.3 13 6.8 2780 2780 Factory Oil 1.2 9 3.4 4800 4800 Factory Oil 1.2 8 2.3 5005 2250 Amsoil 5W40 1.15 8 5.42 10606 1633 Motul 8100 E-tech 0w-40 1.1 11 8.8 5298 3490 Elf Excellium LDX 5W-40 1.1 10 7.6 2540 2540 Factory Oil 1.03 9 1.8 1241 1241 Factory Oil 1 8 4.8 1808 1808 Factory Oil 0.92 8 4.2 2130 2130 Factory Oil 0.9 8 4.5 610 610 Factory Oil 0.85 6 5.5 2030 2030 Factory Oil 0.6 7 3.8 12100 7000 Castrol Syntec 5W-40 0.4 14 4.9 20189 4860 Fuchs GT1 5W30 0.32 11 2.6 25662 3900 RLI Biosyn 5W-40 0.15 12 8.4 5633 2487 Castrol Syntec 5W-40 0.1 11 7.7
 
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