Ok so I got new tires today and then went and got an alignment done. I changed sizes....stock was 215-70-16 and I got 225-65-16s. So im looking at the alignment spread sheet that was given to me and everything is in the green accept SAI and included angel. They are way off...SAI spec range is 9.8 to 11.3 and mine is 16.2 on the right and 11.6 on the left.........my included angel.....spec is 8.5 to 11.5 and mine is 15.6 on the right and 10.9 on the left. So car is a 2012 nissan rogue 2wd. Car tracks straight and is smooth. I have not been in an accident and would not see anything I have done with the ability to bend suspension parts?
Alignment done today.... Need help understanding
- Thread starter mcrn
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SAI? INCLUDED ANGLE? And those numbers? Metric?
Personally I have never gotten an alignment unless there was a problem. I am a firm believer in if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Steering axis inclination and included angle are normally checked if the vehicle were in an accident. They are secondary measurements not normally measured.
Camber and toe are the wear angles. Caster and camber can cause a pull if the cross measurement exceeds .5 degrees.
By changing tire size, you can affect these angles, but they should change symmetrically.
What is your individual camber measurements and the cross camber? The numbers don't add up if the cross camber is
-edit-
Here is is from my materials
SAI: The angle formed by a line drawn through the upper and lower pivot points of the steering axis and a vertical line as viewed from the front. S.A.I. is measured and displayed in degrees.
Included angle is the sum of SAI and camber.
Camber and toe are the wear angles. Caster and camber can cause a pull if the cross measurement exceeds .5 degrees.
By changing tire size, you can affect these angles, but they should change symmetrically.
What is your individual camber measurements and the cross camber? The numbers don't add up if the cross camber is
-edit-
Here is is from my materials
SAI: The angle formed by a line drawn through the upper and lower pivot points of the steering axis and a vertical line as viewed from the front. S.A.I. is measured and displayed in degrees.
Included angle is the sum of SAI and camber.
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Were you given a printout? Maybe scan it or take a pic of it. SAI and Included Angle are not adjustable, they are based off of equations from the other angles.
Originally Posted By: mcrn
and included angel. They are way off...SAI spec range is 9.8 to 11.3 and mine is 16.2 on the right and 11.6 on the left.........my included angel.....spec is 8.5 to 11.5 and mine is 15.6 on the right and 10.9 on the left. So car is a 2012 nissan rogue 2wd. Car tracks straight and is smooth.
and included angel. They are way off...SAI spec range is 9.8 to 11.3 and mine is 16.2 on the right and 11.6 on the left.........my included angel.....spec is 8.5 to 11.5 and mine is 15.6 on the right and 10.9 on the left. So car is a 2012 nissan rogue 2wd. Car tracks straight and is smooth.
Originally Posted By: stephen9666
Originally Posted By: mcrn
and included angel. They are way off...SAI spec range is 9.8 to 11.3 and mine is 16.2 on the right and 11.6 on the left.........my included angel.....spec is 8.5 to 11.5 and mine is 15.6 on the right and 10.9 on the left. So car is a 2012 nissan rogue 2wd. Car tracks straight and is smooth.
LOL sorry! hahahaha Angle
Originally Posted By: mcrn
and included angel. They are way off...SAI spec range is 9.8 to 11.3 and mine is 16.2 on the right and 11.6 on the left.........my included angel.....spec is 8.5 to 11.5 and mine is 15.6 on the right and 10.9 on the left. So car is a 2012 nissan rogue 2wd. Car tracks straight and is smooth.
LOL sorry! hahahaha Angle
Originally Posted By: LotI
Steering axis inclination and included angle are normally checked if the vehicle were in an accident. They are secondary measurements not normally measured.
Camber and toe are the wear angles. Caster and camber can cause a pull if the cross measurement exceeds .5 degrees.
By changing tire size, you can affect these angles, but they should change symmetrically.
What is your individual camber measurements and the cross camber? The numbers don't add up if the cross camber is
-edit-
Here is is from my materials
SAI: The angle formed by a line drawn through the upper and lower pivot points of the steering axis and a vertical line as viewed from the front. S.A.I. is measured and displayed in degrees.
Included angle is the sum of SAI and camber.
Ok Camber left front -0.7 specs -1.0 to 0.5
right front -0.6 spec is -1.3 to 0.3
left front caster 4.9 spec is 3.9 to 5.4.
Right front caster 5.0 spec is 3.9 to 5.4
left front toe 0.09 spec is 0.04 to 0.13
right front toe is 0.11 spec is 0.04 to 0.13
left front SAI 11.6 spec is 9.8 to 11.3
right front SAI 16.2 spec is 9.8 to 11.3 HIGHLIGHT
left front Included angle 10.9 spec is 8.8 to 11.8
right front included angle 15.6 spec is 9.8 to 11.3 HIGHLIGHT
front cross camber -0.1 spec is -0.3 to 0.8
cross caster is 0.0 spec is -0.6 to 0.6
total toe is 0.20 spec is 0.08 to 0.25
left rear camber -0.6 spec is -1.4 to -0.4
left rear toe 0.20 spec is 0.00 to 0.17 HIGHLIGHT
right rear camber is -1.2 spec is -1.4 to-0.4
right rear toe 0.06 spec is 0.00 to 0.17
rear total toe 0.27 spec is 0.00 to 0.33
rear thrust angle 0.07 no spec range given
Steering axis inclination and included angle are normally checked if the vehicle were in an accident. They are secondary measurements not normally measured.
Camber and toe are the wear angles. Caster and camber can cause a pull if the cross measurement exceeds .5 degrees.
By changing tire size, you can affect these angles, but they should change symmetrically.
What is your individual camber measurements and the cross camber? The numbers don't add up if the cross camber is
-edit-
Here is is from my materials
SAI: The angle formed by a line drawn through the upper and lower pivot points of the steering axis and a vertical line as viewed from the front. S.A.I. is measured and displayed in degrees.
Included angle is the sum of SAI and camber.
Ok Camber left front -0.7 specs -1.0 to 0.5
right front -0.6 spec is -1.3 to 0.3
left front caster 4.9 spec is 3.9 to 5.4.
Right front caster 5.0 spec is 3.9 to 5.4
left front toe 0.09 spec is 0.04 to 0.13
right front toe is 0.11 spec is 0.04 to 0.13
left front SAI 11.6 spec is 9.8 to 11.3
right front SAI 16.2 spec is 9.8 to 11.3 HIGHLIGHT
left front Included angle 10.9 spec is 8.8 to 11.8
right front included angle 15.6 spec is 9.8 to 11.3 HIGHLIGHT
front cross camber -0.1 spec is -0.3 to 0.8
cross caster is 0.0 spec is -0.6 to 0.6
total toe is 0.20 spec is 0.08 to 0.25
left rear camber -0.6 spec is -1.4 to -0.4
left rear toe 0.20 spec is 0.00 to 0.17 HIGHLIGHT
right rear camber is -1.2 spec is -1.4 to-0.4
right rear toe 0.06 spec is 0.00 to 0.17
rear total toe 0.27 spec is 0.00 to 0.33
rear thrust angle 0.07 no spec range given
With those caster and camber numbers it should go straight.
Something is wrong with the specs, the specs should be the same for both sides of the car. Your sheet has different camber for the front left and right?
Something is wrong with the specs, the specs should be the same for both sides of the car. Your sheet has different camber for the front left and right?
Originally Posted By: mcrn
The only downside I can feel is......the steering feels lighter now.
That may be most likely a result of having new tires or perhaps if the toe-in was increased.
Perhaps the included angle error could be due to a bent strut?
The only downside I can feel is......the steering feels lighter now.
That may be most likely a result of having new tires or perhaps if the toe-in was increased.
Perhaps the included angle error could be due to a bent strut?
Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: mcrn
The only downside I can feel is......the steering feels lighter now.
That may be most likely a result of having new tires or perhaps if the toe-in was increased.
Perhaps the included angle error could be due to a bent strut?
I just dont see how I have done anything that would bend any part of my suspension.
Originally Posted By: mcrn
The only downside I can feel is......the steering feels lighter now.
That may be most likely a result of having new tires or perhaps if the toe-in was increased.
Perhaps the included angle error could be due to a bent strut?
I just dont see how I have done anything that would bend any part of my suspension.
I double checked the specs for your car and there is a camber difference between the left and right. Most likely to account for road crown.
If the car goes straight, all that means is the suspension is keeping the tires pointed in the right direction going down the road. A bent suspension component won't show up until you corner, hit a bump, reverse or other body motions happen.
If the car goes straight, all that means is the suspension is keeping the tires pointed in the right direction going down the road. A bent suspension component won't show up until you corner, hit a bump, reverse or other body motions happen.
Originally Posted By: LotI
I double checked the specs for your car and there is a camber difference between the left and right. Most likely to account for road crown.
If the car goes straight, all that means is the suspension is keeping the tires pointed in the right direction going down the road. A bent suspension component won't show up until you corner, hit a bump, reverse or other body motions happen.
Thank you very much.....is there any symptoms I can look for?
I double checked the specs for your car and there is a camber difference between the left and right. Most likely to account for road crown.
If the car goes straight, all that means is the suspension is keeping the tires pointed in the right direction going down the road. A bent suspension component won't show up until you corner, hit a bump, reverse or other body motions happen.
Thank you very much.....is there any symptoms I can look for?
Originally Posted By: mcrn
Originally Posted By: LotI
I double checked the specs for your car and there is a camber difference between the left and right. Most likely to account for road crown.
If the car goes straight, all that means is the suspension is keeping the tires pointed in the right direction going down the road. A bent suspension component won't show up until you corner, hit a bump, reverse or other body motions happen.
Thank you very much.....is there any symptoms I can look for?
Bump-steer would be the most common. Darting or wandering would be a condition of toe being out, which yours is not.
If you hit a large dip, the car should jounce evenly. If not, you'll feel it as yaw in the vehicle or a twisting feeling. My thought is that nothing is wrong, just a fluke when the measurements were done.
MINI Coopers are known to compress their upper strut towers if the suspension bottoms hard, it's something you can visually see under the hood...look in your cars' forum to see if there's anything like that going on.
Originally Posted By: LotI
I double checked the specs for your car and there is a camber difference between the left and right. Most likely to account for road crown.
If the car goes straight, all that means is the suspension is keeping the tires pointed in the right direction going down the road. A bent suspension component won't show up until you corner, hit a bump, reverse or other body motions happen.
Thank you very much.....is there any symptoms I can look for?
Bump-steer would be the most common. Darting or wandering would be a condition of toe being out, which yours is not.
If you hit a large dip, the car should jounce evenly. If not, you'll feel it as yaw in the vehicle or a twisting feeling. My thought is that nothing is wrong, just a fluke when the measurements were done.
MINI Coopers are known to compress their upper strut towers if the suspension bottoms hard, it's something you can visually see under the hood...look in your cars' forum to see if there's anything like that going on.
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