Airport limo with 720k km....

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2,480
Yesterday I was coming back from a business trip and taking a quick look at the digital odometer from the back seat I was surprised to see that it had 720k km (450k mi.)!!! Upon inquiring the driver said that this was a 2000 model and he did this many km's in the past 4 years and that many last over 1 million. Up to about 1.5 million at which time there are major problems that start to arise that puts them out of service. He lists a new engine is ~$3k, etc.. He confirmed that he has not seen any that have gone 2 million or more. In either case, when I asked about lube and oil practices he says they just use any old 10-30 and change it every 5k km...and the tranny fluid is changed every 80k km.
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
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Guelph, Ontario
What type of car was it? Did you ask him why they wouldn't switch to synthetic and go with 20,000km intervals? I bet the engines would last just as long, but they would spend 1/4 of the time getting oil changes done.
 

Dr. T

Thread starter
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It was a standard issue black Lincoln Town Car. Guessing it had the 4.6L. The gentleman's english was very poor and so I kept things short and simple. I was just shocked to see the number... Maybe they do use synthetic?? But I doubt it...
 
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451
Location
Bribie Island, Oz
My present car (Ford 5.0)is an ex-limo, but with only 140,000 miles on it. It did the airport run to Bribie (about 60 miles each way), and only had a diet of Castrol GTX 15W-40, changed every 10,000 k's (6,000 miles). I also have wondered why they don't run synthetic oil and extend the drains. Dave
 
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2,533
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
quote:
Originally posted by DavoNF: I also have wondered why they don't run synthetic oil and extend the drains.
[Cool] Probably cash flow. Syn is still more money out-of-pocket right now today. Had a cab ride in Memphis once (I go there a lot, most of the cabs are repainted ex-cop cars) in an old Caprice with 450,000 miles and it looked every bit of it. [LOL!]
 

Dr. T

Thread starter
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2,480
I think I do....at least here in N.A.. I don't know about you guys with 'miracle' engines that don't consume any oil, but every car I've ever owned would consume 5-30. It didn't matter what it was....Castrol GTX or Mobil 1. In fact, the consumption was even higher with M-1. And the same was true on my `97 4.6 Ford DOHC. So imagine the average limo driver...sure you can "possibly/supposedly" go 10k on M-1 but if you have to keep adding quarts (at whatever cost), why bother....just change it out at a certain inteval...guessing they decided on 5k km. and call it a day. That's what I'd like to see...no need to even bother checking the dipstick, just change at an allotted km/mileage.
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: I think I do....at least here in N.A.. I don't know about you guys with 'miracle' engines that don't consume any oil, but every car I've ever owned would consume 5-30. It didn't matter what it was....Castrol GTX or Mobil 1. In fact, the consumption was even higher with M-1. And the same was true on my `97 4.6 Ford DOHC. So imagine the average limo driver...sure you can "possibly/supposedly" go 10k on M-1 but if you have to keep adding quarts (at whatever cost), why bother....just change it out at a certain inteval...guessing they decided on 5k km. and call it a day. That's what I'd like to see...no need to even bother checking the dipstick, just change at an allotted km/mileage.
That is what it's like with my wife's car (2000 Civic). It's run nothing but 5w30 or 0w30 since new, and never needs any oil added between oil changes, even when I went as far as 11,000km between changes. The level on the dipstick simply does not change. I don't even know why I bother checking her oil to be honest.
 
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1,011
Location
Montgomery, Alabama
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: ]
That is what it's like with my wife's car (2000 Civic). It's run nothing but 5w30 or 0w30 since new, and never needs any oil added between oil changes, even when I went as far as 11,000km between changes. The level on the dipstick simply does not change.[/QB][/QUOTE] Same with my mother inlaws 2002 civic. I did a yearly oil change with a mobil 1 filter and Amsoil 10w30 at 13k miles and the level was still reading full. I drained out a full 3.5 quarts also. Pretty amazing for such a small sump. My toyota when new ran 25000 miles between oil changes and only consumed about 4 ounces. This was on amsoil 10w30 also.
 
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1,130
Location
California
I have yet to come across a fleet operator which uses extended drains. Limos, cabs, police cars, city buses, etc. There must be some out there, but I have yet to see it documented. Personally I don't see the advantage of long extended drains, especially ones which require mid course oil filter changes, etc. Oil change time is a great time to do a physical inspection of other vehicle systems. A good dino oil will go 5,000 miles in a modern car and I'm not crazy about going longer than that without having a good look at the undercarriage, checking the tires, shocks, brakes, etc. Might as well do the inspections while the oil drains. Finally, synthetics do nothing to help with systemic contamination such as from and internal gasket leak, etc. Sooner is better IMO. John
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by jthorner: I have yet to come across a fleet operator which uses extended drains. Limos, cabs, police cars, city buses, etc. There must be some out there, but I have yet to see it documented. Personally I don't see the advantage of long extended drains, especially ones which require mid course oil filter changes, etc.
Think about it here though. This limo has put on 720,000km in 4 years! So that is 3500km per week. This means the car is getting an oil change every 1.5 weeks. Do you really think it needs to get everything inspected that frequently? Wouldn't it be much better to simply do an oil change once per month or even once every 2 months? I'm sure they could still catch any mechanical problems in time. Besides, exactly what types of problems do you think they are going to catch when inspecting under the car at oil change time? Do you really honestly think they are doing thorough inspections at each oil change or are they just doing a quick 2-3 min drain of the oil and then popping on a new filter? If ever there was a perfect candidate for the 25,000 mile oil change, it's this vehicle in this thread!
 
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34,194
Location
South Jersey
Can't be, it was a 10w-30 wt oil! And no used oil analysis comparing Pb wear of .000002 to .000000009! How did this car last so long? [Big Grin] [Cheers!]
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by buster: Can't be, it was a 10w-30 wt oil! And no used oil analysis comparing Pb wear of .000002 to .000000009! How did this car last so long? [Big Grin] [Cheers!]
Honestly, with the amount of driving this car does, I truly believe that any oil and any viscosity would allow it to live a long life. Keep in mind that an engine is not wearing out very much at all once it's fully warmed up and at steady highway speeds. Airport limos are not like taxis either, these guys drive very gentle. Trust me on this one, I see probably 9 or 10 of these airport limos every single day in my commute, since I live near the Toronto airport. The guys that drive these things generally cruise along at the speed limit and don't have to drive in the city as much as taxis do. They're mostly on the highway at a steady speed. So the owner might as well save himself a lot of down time by not doing such frequent changes. Pick any decent synthetic and do extended intervals, and he'd get the same long engine life with less time spent needlessly in the shop. [ May 04, 2004, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: Patman ]
 
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34,194
Location
South Jersey
quote:
Honestly, with the amount of driving this car does, I truly believe that any oil and any viscosity would allow it to live a long life. Keep in mind that an engine is not wearing out very much at all once it's fully warmed up and at steady highway speeds.
I agree. I like making fun of how we get on here at times. It is rather hillarious. I myself do strive for the best oil and lowest wear, even knowing that most UOAs are good for the most part and that "wearing out" an engine is more theoretical then anything. I do want the best oil I can't get for my next car. That is why I've been going to town on Redline lately. I want answers!!! [Mad] [Cheers!]
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by buster:
quote:
Honestly, with the amount of driving this car does, I truly believe that any oil and any viscosity would allow it to live a long life. Keep in mind that an engine is not wearing out very much at all once it's fully warmed up and at steady highway speeds.
I agree. I like making fun of how we get on here at times. It is rather hillarious. I myself do strive for the best oil and lowest wear, even knowing that most UOAs are good for the most part and that "wearing out" an engine is more theoretical then anything.

True, we do probably go overboard on here sometimes. But it's fun. [Big Grin]
 
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323
Location
Minnesota-South Dakota
One airport Taxi I took was a 95 Windstar, which had ~240000 miles on it. The trans had been the issue for the driver, but he said he had no engine oil related problems. I don't know what it used. Last Christmas my GF and I were in Chicago. We took a later model Crown Vic (maybe ex police unit), which appeared to only live in the downtown area. It had nearly 350000 miles and the engine was making a little ticking and the trans seemed to shift not so well. The driver said it got Mobil 10-40. Maybe this is a testimony to dino oils. They will work just fine...yeah. lol Then my uncle, who doesn't care much about engines, used Valvoline 10W-30 in everything, whether it calls for it or not. He does 5000-7500 mile OCI and lives in Minneapolis. I started growling at him for doing this. He stated he has never had an engine fail due to motor oil related issues. He keeps them adequately filled and checked but not so great on changes. Anyway, I can't argue with him...he buyes his cars new and drives them ~200,000 miles, too. But hey, it is fun being extra cautious and fussy like us! Is there really a difference? I dunno. The good Explorer has went 80000 miles on 10000 mile OCI of Mobil-1 10W & 5W-30 oils. Has not ever 'used' any makeup oil either, unless it has pulled a heavy load in higher temps. Runs great with over 150000! But it's Mobil-1!!
 
Messages
451
Location
Bribie Island, Oz
We have a few Ford taxis over here that regularly clock up 1,000,000 k's (620,000 miles) on the same engine, but with at least 3 transmission (auto) changes. I must check my local taxi company and find out what the record is. Dave
 
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323
Location
Minnesota-South Dakota
Oh yeah, the good quality of Ford products!..the lincoln limos and the crown victoria taxis & police ionterceptors really do the trick. How do the cadillacs do? From my experience, only 1 of 3 Northstar engines I have had made it over 100,000. Burning excessive oil, blowing head gaskets, solenoids and clutch packs going bad in the transmissions, amongst other items, these things have been very expensive short lived units.
 
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