Age to cut the kids off.

[Marrk]

Just wondering yalls thoughts on this.

At what age do you cut the kids off? What age should you draw the line with supporting your kids. Assume normal kid, normal for these days, meaning lazy, and can not turn a key without watching a youtube video.

Am I wrong for drawing a line in the sand, and deep hard line, reinforced with hellspawn demon hounds and everything else that bites.......................................................at 24?

Big problem, big problem, huge repercussions one way or the other. Serious answers only please.

1) Family is family. It's not like firing a lazy employee.

2) If your kid has grown up to be a lazy, useless millennial/Gen-Z, and now you want to throw him out, are you closing the corral gate after the horse has got out? Who is responsible for having created a lazy, useless adult? Not trying to be harsh. Parenting is not easy.

3) Is throwing anybody out the solution for anything, or is it just moving the problem to a place where you don't have to look at it? Maybe it is a solution sometimes. I do not know.

4) Often the reason kids are on their phones all the time is because they despise the world that we have created for them. The classic image is of the millennial/Gen-Z who, before leaving the house, puts earbuds in, a hat over his head, dark glass on eyes, phone in front of his face, and gets tuned up on some legal cannabis. They don't want to see, or hear, or be touched by the world around them. It's a radical statement of rejection and life-hatred. Of course, this might not be your kid. I do not know.

5) See Number 1 above.

 

[Dave Hess]

6) What if he breaks the news his girlfriend is pregnant with twins and you’ll be a grandpa next year ?

7) What does his mom say ?


Just hypothetical questions.

 

[UncleDave]

The way we did it was less "cutting them off" than "weaning them off" living at home. We implemented the tiniest bit of tough love and ratcheted it up slowly.

Kids could live at home during school.
After schooling As long as they were working and saving for a place and following mom's rules it was all good.

Not working, or looking for work, hanging out all day playing games while enjoying the amenities and services only lasts a matter of about week before ever more restrictive measures got implemented and they didnt have to go far before they got the picture.

By restrictive measure I mean - killing power to their room during working hours and blocking internet access for all but a few hours a day, enough to get resumes out but not enough to play games.

Cant find a job? No problem I'll find one.
Son #1 went to work feeding the homeless at a soup kitchen (for zero pay)
Son # 2 went to work for the local shelter helping with the animals walking feeding and cleaning pens (for zero pay)
You either contribute to the house or society - lo and behold they found paying jobs right away.

With the jobs came rent, and groceries, and a workable share of all the bills and them doing the shopping in rotation.
Mom and I still laugh about their first trip where they really had to shell out some bread - " I cant believe how expensive laundry soap is"

Our boys were really good kids, and there was no "law" that ever needing laying down or awful behavior like so may endure - we just weren't going to let them be lazy young men.

Both boys are pulling sold 6 figures, one I was able to open a door to the TV industry for, and he's an engineer for NBC set for life.
The other boy a a successful software developer just moved into his own townhome.

We tracked all the money they paid in and gave it all back to them when they bought their first places.

 

[Dave Hess]

Fascinating thread that has developed well after we heard the OP's extenuating circumstances. This is one BITOG trait that goes back decades: good people come out of the woodwork to sincerely show care and offer tips based on personal experience, setting aside judgement because there is no rule book for life. What is "supposed to be" vs. reality are often far apart.

John105 piqued my interest with his excellent post ending with "But I don't think it's necessarily doable today." Man, those of us chest thumping just a tiny bit (won't share mine) need to take John105's comment to heart. Today's challenges are unlike what many of us lived through, but there are common themes of responsibility, integrity, etc. being recommended.

So, @burbguy82, with all of these opinions, what are you thinking?

Yes, lots of high quality advice and tips given from various members.

 

[burbguy82]

1) Family is family. It's not like firing a lazy employee.

2) If your kid has grown up to be a lazy, useless millennial/Gen-Z, and now you want to throw him out, are you closing the corral gate after the horse has got out? Who is responsible for having created a lazy, useless adult? Not trying to be harsh. Parenting is not easy.

3) Is throwing anybody out the solution for anything, or is it just moving the problem to a place where you don't have to look at it? Maybe it is a solution sometimes. I do not know.

4) Often the reason kids are on their phones all the time is because they despise the world that we have created for them. The classic image is of the millennial/Gen-Z who, before leaving the house, puts earbuds in, a hat over his head, dark glass on eyes, phone in front of his face, and gets tuned up on some legal cannabis. They don't want to see, or hear, or be touched by the world around them. It's a radical statement of rejection and life-hatred. Of course, this might not be your kid. I do not know.

5) See Number 1 above.

Kids grew up in the same house with the same examples......there is more to the story than just "parenting". Heredity is also a major factor.

 

[burbguy82]

Fascinating thread that has developed well after we heard the OP's extenuating circumstances. This is one BITOG trait that goes back decades: good people come out of the woodwork to sincerely show care and offer tips based on personal experience, setting aside judgement because there is no rule book for life. What is "supposed to be" vs. reality are often far apart.

John105 piqued my interest with his excellent post ending with "But I don't think it's necessarily doable today." Man, those of us chest thumping just a tiny bit (won't share mine) need to take John105's comment to heart. Today's challenges are unlike what many of us lived through, but there are common themes of responsibility, integrity, etc. being recommended.

So, @burbguy82, with all of these opinions, what are you thinking?

I do not agree with the idea of "not doable" these days.

30 years ago, we did not have cell phones, the internet, and a plethora of things that can be used as a great advantage, and create a very comfortable existance........however.......

Comfort IMO opinion is drug, a very insidious one.

I did not start this thread for any other reason as a reality check, and not for me so to speak, but for the situation.

My position has not changed. You have to pull your weight. Sink or swim. The choice is not up to me, the choice is up to the one in the water.

Edit:

I do appreciate all those who have shared their opinions. Some I have spoke to at greater length than others, but ALL comments are useful whether I agree or not.

 

[burbguy82]

Agreed. In my own case, my parents got me through college, though I took out loans as the interest rate was advantageous.

The promise was that Dad would pay them off when they came due.

I lived at home for two months after college graduation, waiting to start Aviation Officer Candidate School in August.

I did not sit around, though, I worked at a junkyard to put away a bit of cash. It was great. Stripped a couple of cars a day. Saw the attraction of that magical Snap-On truck that stopped by the shop weekly.

Off I went to AOCS, fully self sufficient and on my way.

Sadly, Dad died at a young age, just a few years later. Not wanting to burden Mom, I paid off those loans after the military deferment had expired.

By then, I was a young fighter pilot living in Virginia Beach, and was about to buy my first home, which I had to put off until I settled the loans, but still, on my own either way.

We promised our kids the same deal: you go to college, we will find a way to pay for it. Then you’re on your own.

All six kids graduated college without debt. It took tremendous effort on our parts. My wife and I each worked two jobs, leveraged our respective GI bills, borrowed against my 401(k), scrimped, saved, everything we could do to honor that promise.

Totally worth it.

Every investment is made with the assumption that there will be a positive return. In this case, the return is not tangible.

Unfortunately, this investment any further, would likely be a loss. Maybe the "investment" is severance.

 

[Marrk]

Kids grew up in the same house with the same examples......there is more to the story than just "parenting". Heredity is also a major factor.

I apologize. I do not know your situation well enough to comment specifically. I was speaking very broadly.

 

[k1xv]

I would but them off immediately if

a. not attending school, not working, and not paying some kind of room and board

b. bringing undesirable friends and companions into the home

c. routinely engaging in illegal behavior causing police visits.

 

[burbguy82]

I apologize. I do not know your situation well enough to comment specifically. I was speaking very broadly.

No apology needed, I understood what you were saying. It is a complicated issue, difficult to surmise in a few paragraphs.

 

[UncleDave]

I would but them off immediately if
b. bringing undesirable friends and companions into the home

Friends are a tell in both directions.

Show me your friends, and I'll show you your future.

 

[Chris142]

I think it depends on the situation. The kid that's dating my cousin works at a local tire store. Makes $18 per hour.

Drives a 25 yr old Corolla beater with no AC or radio.
After taxes he brings home about $500 a week.

An apartment on the bad side of town will cost $1800 a month. That leaves $200 per month for gas,food, insurance etc. Not nearly enough.

M cousin gets $360 per month to feed herself and the toddler she has from a previous disastrous relationship.

The baby daddy refuses to support his child so she gets no child support.

Tire guy and cousin want to get married and move out but simply can't afford to.

I can't just throw her and the toddler out as she is trying to catch up on her schoolwork and has her driver's permit but the toddler makes life real tough. The toddler has her father's arragant attitude and so far nothing we do has changed that.

 

[CapitalTruck]

This is normal in many other countries. Paying for multiple residences is non-productive expenses at the end of the day. In many cultures its not unusual to have multiple generations under one roof. As long as everyone is pulling their own weight, whats not to like.

I am always enamored at how well the central Americans do here doing exactly this. Go off on your own, start at 0, pay exorbitant child care, this is the European model. Meanwhile, the central Americans (while fully expecting everyone to pull their weight) are supportive of one another. I’m obviously generalizing here, but it seems to be mostly true. I managed to buy a home in DC at 23. However, I had to have three roommates for 15 years at which point I sold the house and used what I made as a down payment on a smaller tiny single family that I can afford to be in alone. Between house and car (and 403b savings) Im still poor though. A lot of my “success” if you can call it that has come from
supportive parents and luck, never discount the latter.

 

[burbguy82]

6) What if he breaks the news his girlfriend is pregnant with twins and you’ll be a grandpa next year ?

7) What does his mom say ?


Just hypothetical questions.

That would be on him.

I know what she would say, and I sure you can extrapolate.

That would be a straw than would destroy the camel.

I did not sign up for a lifetime of servitude. At least not to another person. A wife is supposed to be a natch, a partner, an equal, not a parasitic entity.

IMO, one should not choose their kids over their spouse, just because of relationship. Our kids are separate people, they will do as they will.

 

[MrGraybeard]

The way we did it was less "cutting them off" than "weaning them off" living at home. We implemented the tiniest bit of tough love and ratcheted it up slowly.

Kids could live at home during school.
After schooling As long as they were working and saving for a place and following mom's rules it was all good.

Not working, or looking for work, hanging out all day playing games while enjoying the amenities and services only lasts a matter of about week before ever more restrictive measures got implemented and they didnt have to go far before they got the picture.

By restrictive measure I mean - killing power to their room during working hours and blocking internet access for all but a few hours a day, enough to get resumes out but not enough to play games.

Cant find a job? No problem I'll find one.
Son #1 went to work feeding the homeless at a soup kitchen (for zero pay)
Son # 2 went to work for the local shelter helping with the animals walking feeding and cleaning pens (for zero pay)
You either contribute to the house or society - lo and behold they found paying jobs right away.

With the jobs came rent, and groceries, and a workable share of all the bills and them doing the shopping in rotation.
Mom and I still laugh about their first trip where they really had to shell out some bread - " I cant believe how expensive laundry soap is"

Our boys were really good kids, and there was no "law" that ever needing laying down or awful behavior like so may endure - we just weren't going to let them be lazy young men.

Both boys are pulling sold 6 figures, one I was able to open a door to the TV industry for, and he's an engineer for NBC set for life. ...

As someone who had a reasonably successful career in media, I hope your son is keeping his eyes open. These days, media platforms can become obsolete very quickly, and the parent corporation will waste no time spinning off operations that don't live up to their expectations financially. They just dumped their cable TV division, for instance.

 

[UncleDave]

As someone who had a reasonably successful career in media, I hope your son is keeping his eyes open. These days, media platforms can become obsolete very quickly, and the parent corporation will waste no time spinning off operations that don't live up to their expectations financially. They just dumped their cable TV division, for instance.

Totally.

His skills are completely portable and he can go find another engineering job within a week.

He works for a division that has been running for 20 years and is a net cost savings to the company, but you are right everything is a target these days.

 

[Dave Hess]

That was one of my crazy hypothetical questions….

I still think it’s best to talk to him in private and ask him what are his near term plans if he can’t find a work from home type job.

There’s opportunities out there if he gets motivated and starts looking.

 

[Dave Hess]

I think it depends on the situation. The kid that's dating my cousin works at a local tire store. Makes $18 per hour.

Drives a 25 yr old Corolla beater with no AC or radio.
After taxes he brings home about $500 a week.

An apartment on the bad side of town will cost $1800 a month. That leaves $200 per month for gas,food, insurance etc. Not nearly enough.

M cousin gets $360 per month to feed herself and the toddler she has from a previous disastrous relationship.

The baby daddy refuses to support his child so she gets no child support.

Tire guy and cousin want to get married and move out but simply can't afford to.

I can't just throw her and the toddler out as she is trying to catch up on her schoolwork and has her driver's permit but the toddler makes life real tough. The toddler has her father's arragant attitude and so far nothing we do has changed that.

Sounds like a very hard working guy. Hope things works out for both of them.

 

[ecotourist]

I think it is 20/400

The son of one of my friends is totally blind. He is well on his way to becoming a clinical psychologist.

He did the practicum for his Master's Degree at an injured worker's Rehabilitation Center. Can you imagine explaining to your totally blind psychologist how you can never work again because your back hurts, your wrist is stiff, or you've lost 2 fingers, etc.

You can have a successful career with almost any disability (1) with a bit of initiative, and (2) as long as you're mentally together.

 

[JHZR2]

There’s a difference, and probably in some cases, a fine line, between supporting and enabling.

As someone else said, there’s a difference between a grown kid living in a basement, and a grown kid going to school.

We have a good friend, and she lived with her parents until she got married (gainfully employed the whole time). When she was engaged and looking to buy a house, her parents gave her back all the “rent” she paid. Helped her out a ton with downpayment.

My parents lived frugally and I was able to get through college with no loans because of it. They continued to help me when I was getting my Master’s degree.

My kids are young, so all I know is how things worked for me.

That said, it seems to me that you need to evaluate the value proposition. Worthless degree? No degree and no job? No work ethic? Maybe not so much help, especially after ~21. Working hard, down in hard times, something legit? Probably would be more inclined.

I recognize that there are scenarios where women are on the verge of prostitution, toxic relationships, kids on drugs, etc. Every case is different. For those I don’t know that there is a good or right answer. It’s hard and surely full of pain and problems. By the Grace of God there are no divorces on either side of my wife or my families, and none of those sorts of issues. But they do exist and I have empathy for parents dealing with them.