AF447: In Flight Breakup?

Messages
1,715
Location
Texas & BWI Area
Okay, as this air disaster and tragedy is in its infancy stage of investigation reports lean toward an in flight breakup of the aircraft. Just some clarifications from my earlier posts. Once I asked if turbulence alone can down an aircraft. FlyNavyDiesel replied that this is considered extreme turbulence and incidents have been rare. However my problem is that I have never heard of turbulence causing structural failure of an aircraft. Could this be a worst case scenario happening of all those who are skeptical of the strength and use of composites-adhesives in airframes? Regardless, similar to the situation of the AA Airbus Flight that crashed in Queens in 2001 critical structural components are not supposed to "come off." Finally in regards to the aircraft having flown into thunderheads ... do Air National Guard "StormChaser" C130s ever dare do this? From the pictures I have seen they fly well above a hurricanes cloud ceiling. Can high speed hail strikes lethally damage an aircraft? Thanks, I am always bothered when sophisticated wide bodies have problems over the ocean (ie Swiss Air, TWA800). This is just not supposed to happen \:\(
 
Last edited:
Messages
3
Location
Reading,Pa
This tragedy may have been design and engineering. There may or may not be an inerting system for the fuel tank/s. Of greater concern is the fly by wire system . If eletrical power is lost the "Ram" system a small propeller/generator system hangs down and supplies power to run critical systems. My theory ,is that they were flying in turbulence ,lightning strike and did not allow enough time to correct or explosion from fuel tank with or without an inerting system. Ed
 
Messages
3,393
Location
Raleigh ,NC
 Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
If it was a bomb, wouldn't some terrorist group already have claimed responsibility?
Nobody did not for TWA 800.
 
Messages
2,313
Location
Southwest Virginia
Per Reuters this morning: Experts have questioned whether extreme turbulence or decompression during stormy weather might have caused the disaster -- the worst in Air France's 75-year history. Spanish newspaper El Mundo said a transatlantic airline pilot reported seeing a bright flash of white light at the same time the Air France flight disappeared. "Suddenly we saw in the distance a strong, intense flash of white light that took a downward, vertical trajectory and disappeared in six seconds," the pilot of an Air Comet flight from Lima to Madrid told his company, the newspaper reported. A spokesman for Madrid-based airline Air Comet was not immediately available to confirm the El Mundo article. Asked about whether there could have been an explosion or bomb on the plane, an armed forces spokesman in Paris said they were not ruling anything out at the moment. The same report, however, states: The plane sent no mayday signals before crashing, only a stream of automatic messages over a three minute period after it entered a zone of stormy weather, showing a rapid succession of electrical faults followed by a loss of cabin pressure. The three minutes of automatic messages conflicts with the bomb theory and supports a slower weather related breakup, perhaps culminating with a fuel explosion. All speculation at this point. Tom NJ
 
Messages
4,353
Location
FL
 Originally Posted By: rshaw125
 Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
If it was a bomb, wouldn't some terrorist group already have claimed responsibility?
Nobody did not for TWA 800.
I thought TWA 800 had something wrong with wires that caused the fuel tank to explode?
 
Messages
528
Location
Kansas
It was. Arcing of wiring in the fuel tank cause an explosion in the right inboard fuel tank. Conspiracy theroists still hold to the missle theory.
 
Messages
7,550
Location
North Alabama
 Originally Posted By: zulu
It was. Arcing of wiring in the fuel tank cause an explosion in the right inboard fuel tank. Conspiracy theroists still hold to the missle theory.
A family from my neck of the woods died on TWA 800. Very sad.
 
Messages
588
Location
CA
and it ticks me off when they are so eager to say in a hurry that the data and voice recorder may never be recovered. What do you mean 'never be recovered'??!! What a stupid thing to say even before trying. I understand the location is very tough but thats not an option. That defeats the whole purpose of making such a device. Suddenly puts mankind's so called scientific and technological 'advancement' into stark perspective, doesn't it ? It would be a sad irony in that sense if they really can't recover it. The number of uncertainties and theories surrounding this incident gives even more the reason why that box needs to be recovered! no matter what it takes! On the same note, and I may be oversimplying this, but I have always wondered - since the boxes are able to transmit a tracing signal, why can't they make it so they transmit the data itself on that RF carrier ? Then there is no need to 'recover' them. Just get a decent signal and you can retrieve everything out of it.
 
Messages
1,203
Location
Oregon
 Quote:
and it ticks me off when they are so eager to say in a hurry that the data and voice recorder may never be recovered.
I think it is strange they made that comment so early on. Could be the PR spin people at work. A good military sub would be able to find it if they are still pinging. They supposed to be for 30 days for up to 14,000 feet. Perhaps they don't want it found. Also Interesting is the Air New Zealand A320 on November 27, 2008 test flight.
 Quote:
"At this point we do not know exactly what happened. At first we heard the plane had managed an emergency landing on water but then the coast guard said the plane had broken apart," the spokesman said.
 
Messages
43,650
Location
'Stralia
 Originally Posted By: youdontwannaknow
Just get a decent signal and you can retrieve everything out of it.
Maybe they don't want "just anybody" being able to listen
 
Messages
366
Location
hawaii
Flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorders are just that, recorders. They do not transmit signals, they in fact have no power source other than the aircraft electrical buses. What the media is talking about when they mention 'pingers' are the ULB's or Underwater Locating Beacons. These are simply battery operated signal devices that are water activated and are attached to the outside of the recorders case. Floating boxes have been mentioned but this won't work since the boxes are attached to the aircrafts structure. In most crashes the boxes are still strapped to several hundred if not thousands of pounds of debris. As for them never being recovered, I don't think this is an unreasonable scenario given the location, Do they even know exactly were the tail section of the airplane came down? They need to be within so many miles of the boxes before they pick up signals. Every once in a while the boxes from a crash are never found. Until rules are changed about how flight data and communication on aircraft are monitored and stored, there will be times when this information is lost.
 
Messages
2,893
Location
Georgia/Retired
Can anyone on here post some pictures for me? I have three pictures of a small CRJ that was hit hard with lightning last month here in the southeast. It's amazing what these planes take from mother nature and continue on. If you can post the pics in this forum for me send a private message with a email so I can forward them to you. Thanks.
 

outrun

Thread starter
Messages
1,715
Location
Texas & BWI Area
"Until rules are changed about how flight data and communication on aircraft are monitored and stored, there will be times when this information is lost" Of course we can be talking about huge amounts of data transfer and storage here .... what are the downsides of real time aircraft telemetry data to surface stations? This would create a information backup useful for investigations among other things. We already know the aircraft sent automated systems error messages. Upping the ante are more advanced flight data transmissions the next progression. In a case like this it could lessen the criticality of the hardware recorder search and recovery. After all engineers rightfully crave redundancy. Side note one source said this A330 did not have GPS or a modern aircraft weather radar suite. Could cockpit GPS have provided secondary airspeed data to allow the pilots recourse to possible primary air speed sensor problems?
 
Top