AeroShell 15w50 lycoming IO360-C1C6 AA5A 43HR

[cheetahdriver]

since we don't have too many aircraft, i thought i would post this relatively disappointing OA from my HyperCheetah. engine is 119SMOH. my flight pattern is typically that after advancing the throttle to the stop, i put my foot on it to prevent slippage...

blackstone comments
For one reason or another, we found wear higher than it should be for your Cheetah engine after
running a routine 43-hours on the oil. We never know the "why" of things on a first sample. We would
guess we were seeing corrosion from inactivity but we could also be seeing wear-in if the engine has been
opened since zero hours. Universal averages show typical metals for this type engine after a 43-hour oil
use run. You can see the differences in wear, your engine to averages. If the oil filter is clean and local
inspection shows no faults, fly 43-more and recheck.


MI/HR-ON-OIL------43HR
MI/HR-ON-UNIT-----119SMOH
makeup............8 qts
ALUMINUM----------14
CHROMIUM----------11
IRON--------------57
COPPER------------19
LEAD--------------5576
TIN---------------9
MOLYBDENUM--------3
NICKEL------------12
MANGANESE---------1
SILVER------------0
TITANIUM----------0
POTASSIUM---------0
BORON-------------0
SILICON-----------20
SODIUM------------1
CALCIUM-----------5
MAGNESIUM---------4
PHOSPHORUS--------936
ZINC--------------8
BARIUM------------0

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FLASHPOINT-IN-F---525
FUEL%------------- ANTIFREEZE%-------air cooled
WATER%------------0.0
INSOLUBLES%-------0.6

 

[Chris142]

Lead is a little high

 

[MGregoir]

Leaded fuel does that.

 

[cheetahdriver]

Originally Posted By: Chris142
Lead is a little high

well, as mgregoir says, it's the leaded fuel that makes it run high, but the lead in this sample is higher than normal (uni avg 4055) , perhaps showing that the rings haven't properly seated yet. the other side of that is the 8 qts of makeup should have diluted the lead quite a bit.

third hand is that i am not happy after spending 20k for a OH to wind up with this sort of OA...

 

[sunruh]

how is the old city of chickendale? i haven't been there since i left fayettnam.

very interesting numbers considering the 8qts of makeup. where they all added at once or a qt every 5 hrs? or how?

these:

CHROMIUM----------11
IRON--------------57
COPPER------------19
LEAD--------------5576
TIN---------------9

NICKEL------------12

INSOLUBLES%-------0.6

all give me concern. depending on how the makeup oil was added.
is 8 qts in 43 hours typical?
i only use leaded fuel as well, and my numbers would not extrapolate out anywhere near like this.

 

[cheetahdriver]

the sump capacity is 8qts, i added a quart every time it made it to the 5 qt level. over 6 seemed to paint the belly more that get used. even at 6, would still have a few drips out the crankcase vent tube on the hangar floor.

Nickel is the one that caught my attention. exhaust valve guides would be the primary source for this. of course, if you figure 100hrs to break in, this engine was still in break in phase, but with 8qts makeup, it makes you wonder just how much nickel it is shedding...

 

[sunruh]

chromium is sometimes used in the rings.
lead then tin then copper in plain bearings. boy i hope you are not at the copper!!!

the insolubles at 0.6 with 8 qts of make up is kind of telling as well.

i just dont have a good feeling about what i see.

 

[OrdnanceMarine]

Don't know much about these engines besides how to operate them, which I haven't done for over 5 years now but thanks for posting it up. Definitely expect to see higher rates of wear than automobiles with a good TBO being 2000 hours or so for the aircraft and many, many times that for automobile engines. Wish it was easier to certify new power plants for GA use so we could welcome in some of the dramatic improvements in ICE technology. As I left the field there were some promising diesels on the horizon but haven't checked to see if anything materialized.

 

[oilyriser]

Do those things have air filters?

 

[cheetahdriver]

yes, they use a pre-oiled foam element. there is also an alternate air door which can be manually opened to bypass the filter and intake section in the event of in-flight intake air starvation (bird strike on the intake or intake icing). while this door is spring loaded, the cheetah is unusual as the intake is a NACA duct on the nosebowl, so you get a ram-air effect which pressurizes the intake.

 

[Johnny]

Have you thought about using Phillips X/C 20W-50. That's all I ever used in my Cessna with very good results. That's all Cessna has used for years at the factory where they build their piston engine aircraft.

 

[cheetahdriver]

the Phillips has a VERY good rep, especially among the round engine guys (real men fly round engines). i have always been a proponent of aeroshell, although i have changed back and forth between 15w50 and straight 100plus in the summer. oddly enough, the OA guys say there is no effective difference in any of the aviation oils as far as wear goes.

 

[cheetahdriver]

thought i would tell "the rest of the story" (Paul Harvey RIP) on this engine. at the end of the next OC, it went back to Mena Aircraft Engines, with an oil consumption rate of about 1qt every 90 minutes. on teardown, the cylinders were washed completely (ie, no crosshatching, smooth as glass). i decided to go back with 4 new Lycoming Cylinders, but the ECI Chroming process was where all the bad looking metals were coming from.

why? interesting question, i was told it was the first cylinders MAE had seen that looked like this.

 

[maximus]

Pilots also on the oil forum? Why I think I've found my new favorite intraweb message board.


*side story that this thread reminded me of*

I force landed an Arrow last year with a C1C in it. Long story short, the owner/operator of the flight school wants 35 grand from me for the engine loss. Drain plug fell out. Wasn't safety wired. Somehow it's my fault because I didn't catch that on the pre-flight.

 

[Colt45ws]

Sounds like the cylinders were glazed, which would be improper break-in. Excessive oil consumption would fit with that.

 

[ravenchris]

Could Terry Dyson help you analyse your situation?

 

[cheetahdriver]

Originally Posted By: ravenchris
Could Terry Dyson help you analyse your situation?


not much to analyze. the cylinders lost the crosshatching because of a rechroming process that has since been ended. the case was split because of a leak at the string line, and all of the internal components were in good shape. the bad wear metals appeared to be all coming from the cylinder glazing. the cylinders are being replaced with lycoming new, so this should be the end of the story until the newly recylindered engine is back on for test flight.

will break it in with mineral oil and then go back to 15w50 for the winter and 100plus for the summer.

 

[ravenchris]

Thanks for the reply, stay safe.

 

[LoneRanger]

What *is* the state of affairs on 100LL fuel and are the aero-diesel engines that burn Jet-A seeing more use? Like OrdnanceMarine, when I went soft on the hobby the aero diesel piston engines that burned Jet-A were just beginning to be certified, and there was talk about 100LL being phased out. From what I have noticed, 100LL still rules the day for piston engines, and the aero-diesel engines have not taken off. This new admin we have in Washington,I fear they may slap some sort of environmental penalty tax on 100LL or something (if it hasn't been done already that I missed noticing). That and user fees for General Aviation which I heard is in the pipeline and being readied.

 

[Mike Thompson]

Was the STC a pain to get? I heard it was quite expensive, if at all possible. Did Blackstone know it wasn't a Rotax that was in there? Don't mean to insult you or anything, it isn't everyday you see a Cheetah with an O-360. I bet it scoots. If cooling is inadequate for this installation, the Lycoming will run hot and cause valve prob lems, with the lifters spalling and self destructing. That may be where some of the wear metals are coming from?