Advice on making the old lady see reason. RE vehicle shopping

[mattd]

Truck shopping, as I sold my rotted out one that was beyond putting money into. It was a 13 YO ford super duty with a diesel. I am a die hard ford guy so the next one will be also a ford, and a diesel. We tow an 8000 lb camper seasonally about 200 miles one way several times per year. We are also considering a larger camper (10-11K lb range). I cannot explain to her that even a used one that is 5 years old or more, with over 100K miles is not going to be less than 525$/month. Even with 10K down. I am looking for something rot free/very clean that has not be used for plowing.

We recently paid off over $15,000 in unsecured debt so we are saving a ton of money every month now . Her vehicle was just paid off also (included in that previous number). I have two young kids that my work schedule allows us to avoid day care costs.

With out the cost of a truck for me, we have approx 2700$ left over after all expenses each month. I brought up a 3 year old F350 to her with 40k miles. It would net us around 650$/month for payment after the down payment.

She had in mine 350$ for a payment. In my mind she is delusional. You can barely find a used half ton bare trim with under 100K in my area for that kind of money.

I have tried explaining that a newer vehicle under warranty will have much less repair costs than a 7-8 year old truck with over 130K miles. In her mind she’d rather replace trucks every 5-7 years than pay more for one and keep it 7-10 years after it’s paid off. Doesn’t make sense to me. Keep in mind I am a diesel mechanic by trade.

What advice have you and how to approach this? I am tried all angles I can think of. Sorry for the long winded post. Quite frustrated with things at this point.

 

[JHZR2]

Just do the math. Start simple. $x for y months, 0% is $z. Go from there. Be prepared to show what the offerings are for sale at the price point that she wants and you want. Show them from eBay or wherever hosts good pics. Explain the differences.

if that doesn’t work, I don’t know what to say. $300 is a lot of money in many ways, even if one is well off. It’s three nice dinners a month. Or whatever other metric you might think of.

 

[LawrenceGazebo]

Can you rent a truck the few times a year you tow and continue saving that 2700/month until you can afford a truck without a payment? It won't take long to be able to pay cash for a nice rig, if you still want one.

Never fun to get out of debt just to go right back in.

Edited to add: She is probably on "Sally is the Makeup Gal" asking how to make her husband see the light that she doesn't want to spend a bunch on a truck that won't get used but a few times a year.

 

[Pew]

Show her how much it costs to repair a modern Diesel truck vs one out of warranty?

 

[gman2304]

If you have $2,700 left over every month, save that money over the winter then revisit buying a new or used truck in the spring, assuming the truck won’t be your DD until then. You being a diesel mechanic you might consider a late model used diesel, and you should have enough saved by then to have a large down payment to bring your payment down. Plus waiting a while might lower the temperature with you know who.

 

[ripcord]

Reason would say you should have six months to a years worth of living expenses socked away for emergencies and a thousand a month budgeted for IRA's and 401K's before tying on a big fat car payment.

 

[ctechbob]

I've run up against something similar. What I ended up doing was writing out a list of requirements and let the wife do the looking. Whatever she brought me had to match that list of requirements, else it was a no-go. This wasn't even a car, it was car insurance and she thought I was just saying no to things because I didn't want to change. I was saying no because I've worked in the industry and knew that the deal we were already getting was about as good as it got.

She soon figured out she was way out in space with her numbers.

 

[PandaBear]

If you only tow several times a year can you get by renting U-Haul or something like that? Keeping a used Fusion instead of a big diesel truck would save you a lot, and when you have the money you can always trade up later without much debt.

 

[Gyro Gearloose]

Tell her you will buy one with a paint color that complements the color of her eyes and hair. Done deal.

 

[The Critic]

Take her test driving. Let her drive the cheaper (older) truck and the newer one. The test drive will sell itself.

 

[97prizm]

Hands down the above with renting. A friend of mine kept saying he absolutely had to have a 2500 for towing his camper and 4 wheelers 2-3 times a year. All he does is complain about the cost of tires parts etc. Right now used vehicle prices are off the charts.

 

[clinebarger]

Maybe find a rust free 6.0L PSD truck in the South/Southwest?

 

[Astro14]

So, her way is spend $300 less per month and avoid falling back into the debt trap you just escaped?

I don’t see what’s so unreasonable about that. Your “reason”: spending more now saves more in the long run. Her “reason”: we aren’t going back into debt. Somewhere in that extra $2,700/month is a compromise.

“Making her see reason” is only possible if YOU are willing to see reason - the need to avoid the debt she fears. And honestly, I’m with her on that one. She has some fear, or plan, that you’re not seeing.

Your question seems to be, “how did I get her to do it my way”.

My answer to you is: figure out how to do it in a way that accommodates her position.

You may view that entire $2,700 as available to spend, but she has in mind something else for it, that much is clear. Find out what she’s got in mind, that you’re missing, which is causing her to hold back on you. Figure out what her position is based on, why she is saying what she is saying.

Every guy you know is going to say, “heck yeah, get the new truck” but you’re not living with them, you’re with her, so, you need to understand her position better.

 

[mattd]

Ok let me clarify. Several times is is about a dozen times for the towing. I also use the truck to tow various trailers for different reasons outside our travel trailer, mostly local but some times for longer distance.

Chris I’ve thought about that but have the time to travel and look around. I wanted to keep my 6.0 I had but I did not have the time to cab swap. She didn’t want to put 8 grand in it. (With paint and everything else needed for the swap).

I can’t even get her to look at photos of the trucks never mind a test drive.

I do need a truck because on top of the towing, my line of work and work I on the house and whatnot I need the pickup bed. And I also need the 4 door cab for the kids.

We have some good money in savings at this point.

I also budgeted 300$ in take out every month and still have that money left over.

A truck is a necessity in my life at this point.

My point is 300$ does not buy a truck to do the job we need it to do. Not one that will require replacement , mostly due rust, not long after buying it. The budget I wrote out is after ALL expenses, including all food, fuel, insurance, everything.

I understand and respect all your points and will take them into consideration.

 

[Astro14]

All your points make perfect sense to me...

so, why don’t they make perfect sense to her?

What is she seeing that you’re not? This is my point, it’s less a matter of her not seeing, and more a matter of her seeing something else.

Figure out what that is.

Is she willing to give up the camper? Does avoiding debt mean that much to her?

You could get a much smaller, less capable Ford truck within budget, still meet your work/household truck requirement, but without the tow ability. Does approaching it from that angle, “I understand our budget, here’s what I can get for that, but we can’t tow the camper with this 8 year old F-150, and I think, to avoid getting further into debt, we should sell the camper, since we can’t afford a truck that will tow it. This will save us storage lot fees, insurance, and we’ll have the cash from the sale”.

 

[mattd]

So, her way is spend $300 less per month and avoid falling back into the debt trap you just escaped?

I don’t see what’s so unreasonable about that. Your “reason”: spending more now saves more in the long run. Her “reason”: we aren’t going back into debt. Somewhere in that extra $2,700/month is a compromise.

“Making her see reason” is only possible if YOU are willing to see reason - the need to avoid the debt she fears. And honestly, I’m with her on that one. She has some fear, or plan, that you’re not seeing.

Your question seems to be, “how did I get her to do it my way”.

My answer to you is: figure out how to do it in a way that accommodates her position.

You may view that entire $2,700 as available to spend, but she has in mind something else for it, that much is clear. Find out what she’s got in mind, that you’re missing, which is causing her to hold back on you. Figure out what her position is based on, why she is saying what she is saying.

Every guy you know is going to say, “heck yeah, get the new truck” but you’re not living with them, you’re with her, so, you need to understand her position better.

She likes to save money. Period. That’s just who she is. She likes to spend on the absolute necessaties. Not much else. She’s never spent that much money a month on something before either, other than our house, and threw out “I don’t know anyone that spends that much money on a truck a month”.

And I don’t see that sum of money available to spend, or else I’d be looking at 80,00$ trucks. I don’t think 20-25% of that number with payment and insurance for a vehicle that will last 15-20 years is unreasonable. That’s just my opinion.

 

[mattd]

She won’t give up camping. She’s been doing that since she was little, and it’s time now we spend in Maine on her family’s property with her parents, grandmother, brother and sister and law/nieces, and aunts/uncles etc. she enjoys that too much to give it up. They have 11 acres on the saco river.

The camper we keep at the house so no storage fees.

 

[Astro14]

Matt - I’ve read your posts, and they make perfect sense. I would absolutely support your plan if I were your wife.

So, what’s she stuck on? Why doesn’t your plan make sense to her?

Does she not understand what it costs to buy a truck that can tow the camper? Or is it that she has some other fear/priority/whatever that is holding her back from saying OK.

We’re going to presume that she is rational, that she is intelligent, so there has to be something in her mind, that you have yet to discover, that makes holding back that $300/month from the truck really important to her.

So, work on understanding that. Understanding why she feels that way.

Until you understand why she’s feeling/thinking what she is, she will appear to you (and me) as irrational. You’re not going to make her rational by presenting your case over and over. You’re going to have to get inside her head, to understand why she is saying what she is saying. Find a way to do that, then acknowledge her priorities/concerns about money, before finding a way forward.

Perhaps that way forward is your plan. Perhaps it’s a new one. Perhaps it’s a gradual education on total cost of ownership of an old truck. But it has to start with better understanding her position.

In the meantime. No truck = no camping. So, you’ve got some time to figure it out.

Perhaps, if she realizes that camping requires $650/month for the truck, then her priorities will shift. I completely agree that you can’t get a decent tow vehicle for $300/month. Personally, I think $650 makes sense. But I can’t tell you what she’s thinking. So, talk to her some more, and focus on what SHE is thinking, what her understanding of the situation includes.

 

[mattd]

Part of what I I think is that she thinks I’ll find what I found 9 years ago for the same price. But I also settled a little because the truck had high miles and was used for plowing at one point in its life. I really don’t think she understands what trucks cost in today’s life. She just refuses to listen to it. She is intelligent, but is not being rational about this because she is afraid to spend the money, probably because she thinks that something will happen at some point and we will need it for something else. She says we aren’t in a good position financially because we have 2 small kids. Just because you have 2 small kids doesn’t mean that you can’t be in a good position. Yes they cost money, but all of our expenses I accounted for when I wrote out the budget. It’s just a fear that she has with spending money.

I have tried to educate her about the cost of things, but she quickly dismisses the discussion and says, “were not buying that look for something else it’s too much money”.

 

[Astro14]

There’s the gist of it: she is insecure with your financial position. You are secure. She fears. You don’t.

She won’t agree until her fear is addressed.

Come up with a plan, or set of goals, that allows her fear to be allayed. I don’t know what that is, work it out with her. Is it $10,000 in a savings account? A 529 for each of the kids? A couple of months of positive cash flow and setting aside money before the truck loan?

How about this: set the budget for the truck. What, $30K for a decent one? When you’ve saved $15K, cash for the truck and the monthly payment for the balance is down to $300, then you buy the truck. Until then, no truck. No camping. No spending. If you’ve got $2,700/month free, then it’s six months of dedicated savings. Demonstrate to her that you, as a couple, can save, can budget, can avoid big debt payments.