Advice needed for this paint!

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472
Location
IL
I am no paint expert so I was hoping that someone who has seen something like this can help me out. I dove into a detail on this car to try and clean up the paint as it's only seen washes (not driveway washes) for 2 years without any sealants/wax/etc.. The pictures below are after a round of Nanoskin Autoscrub and M105(with both yellow and orange pads, not both on same panel) using a PC7424xp. The Swirl marks are still noticeable and it almost looks as though the clearcoat is pitting. I can't figure out what those little spots are that almost look like water spots, but if I run the top of my knuckle over them, it's smooth. Before I progress through to 205 and other steps, does anyone have any suggestions as to what I could do to either get rid of these imperfections or at least hide them?
 
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1,464
Location
Gulf Coast, MS
Wax and sealing hide swirls. My suggestion would be strip everything off the car with a aggressive soap. Dry by hand. Claybar the car. Use a good rubbing compound (I suggest meguiars its worked well for me) a buffer will really help. After that I would use a polishing agent. Seal with 2 good coats of a quality sealent. After that you can do as you please. My sealent lasts me a good 5 months even 3 months in the car still beads like I put it on yesterday. Best of luck. And remember don't cut any corners (even if it takes you a day and a half). It will be a slap in the face once your completely done.
 
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Messages
635
Location
Norwalk, CA not CT
You need a better camera. At best with the pictures being out of focus and hazy I'd have said they're etched in water spots. But if they've already been compounded, I'd say it's the beginning of clearcoat failure. I wouldn't compound the car anymore. The paint likely is a lost cause. Improving the appearance by compounding til the swirls are gone and the spots reduced may only hasten the deterioration.
 
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4,156
Location
Cali
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
Are you parking in a garage or outside? Looks like something has eaten into the clearcoat.
The beginning of the end of your clearcoat.
 
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23,882
Location
CA
From those pictures, it's hard to say -- but it is likely that the your combination (and technique) is not aggressive enough to remove the swirls. As for the water spots, they may be etchings, which will require wetsanding to remove.
 
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13,282
Location
ROCHESTER, NY
Originally Posted By: The Critic
From those pictures, it's hard to say -- but it is likely that the your combination (and technique) is not aggressive enough to remove the swirls. As for the water spots, they may be etchings, which will require wetsanding to remove.
Yes, it certainly looks like the water beads have etched themselves into the clear coat. And/Or there are some acid rain spots that I have seen on many paints in the past.
 

lugNutz

Thread starter
Messages
472
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: daves87rs
That clearcoat is toast.... makes me wonder how the rest of the car was cared for...
Mechanically speaking, the car is in great shape... guess who maintains it!? Not sure what happened to the paint though.. It gets somewhat regular washes and it is parked in a garage -- it didn't look like this (aside from the swirl marks) the last time I did maintenance, which was 3 weeks ago. Not a lot of miles are put on the car either. shrug
Originally Posted By: The Critic
From those pictures, it's hard to say -- but it is likely that the your combination (and technique) is not aggressive enough to remove the swirls. As for the water spots, they may be etchings, which will require wetsanding to remove.
[censored] cell phone shot in a dimly lit garage.. unfortunately it was better than getting pictures in the dark and at least something to look at. I have a feeling the CC is going bad, this isn't my first rodeo with detailing, maybe like you said, i'm not perfect at it. Without wetsanding idk what else I can do... I will try to get some better shots of it outside, I just don't get around the car until night time!
 
Messages
367
Location
Ct., USA
When the clear is gone, it's gone. Clear coat looks great in the showroom, but IRL, it's very unforgiving...unlike nitrocellulose of yore which could be rubbed and buffed to death and look as new as the day it left the factory. Less is more here, I'd clay the whole car and then follow up with a couple of hand applications of Megs Ultimate. Remember to rub in a back and forth motion (NOT circular, an old wives tale). You'd be crazy to attempt compound and orbital buffers, the result will magnify your swirl condition. Trust me on this...
 
Messages
172
Location
FL, USA
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
The pictures below are after a round of Nanoskin Autoscrub and M105(with both yellow and orange pads, not both on same panel) using a PC7424xp.
How much pressure were you using with the PC? PCs aren't really designed to do serious correction. They can, but it is a lot more work than doing it with a rotary. Especially a rotary with a wool pad. PCs need quite a bit of pressure and slow movements even with 105 and an orange pad. You need to get a paint gauge and make sure there is enough paint left before you go crazy on it. I have made quick work of paint that looked worse than that with a rotary, 105 and a purple wool pad, after I verified that there was enough paint to do so.
 
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23,882
Location
CA
Originally Posted By: Zeus33
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
The pictures below are after a round of Nanoskin Autoscrub and M105(with both yellow and orange pads, not both on same panel) using a PC7424xp.
How much pressure were you using with the PC? PCs aren't really designed to do serious correction. They can, but it is a lot more work than doing it with a rotary. Especially a rotary with a wool pad. PCs need quite a bit of pressure and slow movements even with 105 and an orange pad. You need to get a paint gauge and make sure there is enough paint left before you go crazy on it. I have made quick work of paint that looked worse than that with a rotary, 105 and a purple wool pad, after I verified that there was enough paint to do so.
This is very true. Paint Thickness is a real concern whenever you are attempting any heavier correction, especially on older cars which may have seen correction before. A Paint Thickness Gauge will give you an idea of what may be available… You may want to consider switching to the MF discs from Meguiars for correction. Most of us are seeing some very good results with just the finishing disc when paired with M100/101/205. However, with a PC, you may need the cutting or xtracut discs with a 101 or 100 to achieve what you are looking for, but be very careful. Sometimes, I have even found that 205 and a MF finishing disc on a large-throw DA (Rupes 21) will allow you to remove certain defects that 3000 or heavy compounding will not remove (i.e. certain water etching marks); however there is a very particular technique for this approach and it only works with large-throw DAs. Kevin Brown has written a new article about this.
 
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lugNutz

Thread starter
Messages
472
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: Zeus33
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
The pictures below are after a round of Nanoskin Autoscrub and M105(with both yellow and orange pads, not both on same panel) using a PC7424xp.
How much pressure were you using with the PC? PCs aren't really designed to do serious correction. They can, but it is a lot more work than doing it with a rotary. Especially a rotary with a wool pad. PCs need quite a bit of pressure and slow movements even with 105 and an orange pad.
I try to maintain about an inch per second with my movement. As far as pressure, the feel of the PC is still new to me, so I put just about enough pressure to keep the pad from slowing down too much. The big thing that worries me is whether or not i'm using too little of the compound.. Before I started using 105 I read that a little goes a LONG way, so maybe, just maybe, I am using too little in my work area.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
This is very true. Paint Thickness is a real concern whenever you are attempting any heavier correction, especially on older cars which may have seen correction before. A Paint Thickness Gauge will give you an idea of what may be available…
I might be able to get my hands on a gauge, but even at that, it makes me nervous to continue moving on with additional compounding.
Originally Posted By: The Critic
You may want to consider switching to the MF discs from Meguiars for correction. Most of us are seeing some very good results with just the finishing disc when paired with M100/101/205. However, with a PC, you may need the cutting or xtracut discs with a 101 or 100 to achieve what you are looking for, but be very careful.
I am using these pads with a 5" backing plate: http://www.autogeek.net/lc-ccs-6inch-pads.html In this particular case, I used a yellow cutting pad on the roof, and an orange light cutting pad on the rest of the panels. I used M105 with both. Are the Megs pads better than these ones?
 
Messages
23,882
Location
CA
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
The big thing that worries me is whether or not i'm using too little of the compound.. Before I started using 105 I read that a little goes a LONG way, so maybe, just maybe, I am using too little in my work area.
When using 105 for cutting (or any of Meguiars compounds or polishes), it is critical to fully prime the entire face of your pad. Basically, you should see no yellow area on your yellow pad. After priming, use 2-3 small dots (skittles sized) for each 16”x16” section. Be sure to blow out the pad with shop air or use a pad brush to gently clean the pad after each section. Pad cleaning is CRITICAL because the removed clearcoat will build-up in the pad, and will affect your level of cut and finish. M105 has a fairly short work time, so after your second pass, you may want to blow out the pad and spray a light mist of water onto the surface – then continue working.
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
In this particular case, I used a yellow cutting pad on the roof, and an orange light cutting pad on the rest of the panels. I used M105 with both. Are the Megs pads better than these ones?
Generally speaking, for cutting, the MF discs do cut faster (have better leveling ability) and are easier to handle than stiff foam compounding pads. They do require more diligent cleaning due to microfibers’ tendency to hang onto residue/debris from the correction process. Also, play around with the arm speed. Generally speaking, there are a few areas you need to pay attention to: 1) defect removal, 2) temperature of the surface, and 3) work time of the product. Your results in these three areas are going to depend on your polisher speed, size of work area, arm pressure, arm speed and number of passes. You will need to experiment with those five variables until you find a combination that delivers the results you need. With that said, it is also entirely possible that this polisher/pad/product combo is inadequate for the type of paint and defects that you are working on. What kind of car is this? The Explorer?
 

lugNutz

Thread starter
Messages
472
Location
IL
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
The big thing that worries me is whether or not i'm using too little of the compound.. Before I started using 105 I read that a little goes a LONG way, so maybe, just maybe, I am using too little in my work area.
When using 105 for cutting (or any of Meguiars compounds or polishes), it is critical to fully prime the entire face of your pad. Basically, you should see no yellow area on your yellow pad. After priming, use 2-3 small dots (skittles sized) for each 16”x16” section. Be sure to blow out the pad with shop air or use a pad brush to gently clean the pad after each section. Pad cleaning is CRITICAL because the removed clearcoat will build-up in the pad, and will affect your level of cut and finish. M105 has a fairly short work time, so after your second pass, you may want to blow out the pad and spray a light mist of water onto the surface – then continue working.
Originally Posted By: lugNutz
In this particular case, I used a yellow cutting pad on the roof, and an orange light cutting pad on the rest of the panels. I used M105 with both. Are the Megs pads better than these ones?
Generally speaking, for cutting, the MF discs do cut faster (have better leveling ability) and are easier to handle than stiff foam compounding pads. They do require more diligent cleaning due to microfibers’ tendency to hang onto residue/debris from the correction process. Also, play around with the arm speed. Generally speaking, there are a few areas you need to pay attention to: 1) defect removal, 2) temperature of the surface, and 3) work time of the product. Your results in these three areas are going to depend on your polisher speed, size of work area, arm pressure, arm speed and number of passes. You will need to experiment with those five variables until you find a combination that delivers the results you need. With that said, it is also entirely possible that this polisher/pad/product combo is inadequate for the type of paint and defects that you are working on. What kind of car is this? The Explorer?
A lot of good information there for me to wrap my head around.. So I thank you. This is actually a 2006 Altima. Up until I dove in to it, the paint had never been compounded, just the occasional hand wax. Not often enough apparently.
 
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