Advanced testing to "Reverse Engineer" formula

[Lyondellic]

There is a hot debate going on in another thread about whether or not Amsoil products (except the XL line) contain any group III base oil. Seems like this debate has raged, albeit usually involving Mobil 1, for years here on BITOG.

1) Is it safe to assume that a large oil company can take a competitor's product and perform extensive, and needless to say expensive, testing to determine all of the competing product's ingredients?

2) Is it safe to assume that testing could also determine the precise quantity of each ingredient in the competing product?

If the answer to both of the above questions is "Yes" then I see no benefit that a company would derive from concealing the type or mix of base oils of from the consumer.

After all, Joe Consumer is not going to say "Ah ha! I can combine 65% Group IV with 33% Group III, then top off the last 2% of this mix with a few additives and not have to buy Brand "X" oil anymore".

My inclination is to think that the answer to the above questions must be "No" otherwise generic versions of various name brand oils would be available everywhere. I am not a chemist, however, and do not know what tests are available when the cost to perform testing is not a concern.

In the final analysis, I am happy using Amsoil and the UOA's speak for the quality of their ingredients and formulas. I have also been happy using Mobil 1 and Pennzoil Platinum. None of these oils have let me down yet, nor do I think that they will in the future.

Try calling Coca-Cola and ask what their secret formula is. Better yet, call KFC and see if they would be willing to share the Colonel's secret mix of "herbs and spices" with you. In the end, who cares as long as Coca-Cola and KFC taste good. I'm being facetious of course, so please don't get offended.

 

[Steve S]

I would like to add this Amsoil ,Redline. M1 and all the botique oils are quite pricy and are in a somewhat special market yet if you ask them what is in it you the p word. Not much loyalty to the oil monkeys who use their products. Yet as posted any major oil company can lab the oil and get a pretty good idea about the blend and the add package etc. Just think if someone called Amsoil and asked the question and was told as a valued customer what you were getting for your money ! It would be good .I think we are not told because we are paying too much for the benefits recieved from the botique oils . Seems for about half the price Schaffers gives better results than most if not all botique oils and the top major brands are as good as the botiques.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Yes it is doable this site collected funs and did it with German Castrol.

 

[Fester]

If a UAO or better a virgin oil analysis can detect brand x contains 132 ppm of moly or boron, then the answer is yes.

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
If the answer to both of the above questions is "Yes" then I see no benefit that a company would derive from concealing the type or mix of base oils of from the consumer.

After all, Joe Consumer is not going to say "Ah ha! I can combine 65% Group IV with 33% Group III, then top off the last 2% of this mix with a few additives and not have to buy Brand "X" oil anymore".

My inclination is to think that the answer to the above questions must be "No" otherwise generic versions of various name brand oils would be available everywhere. I am not a chemist, however, and do not know what tests are available when the cost to perform testing is not a concern.



As others have said, yes it is very much possible.

In the reality of things, there are people who lurk on this and other sites doing industrial espionage, attempting to gain enough information to make thier own formulations at your expense, otherwise known as "thievery."

If blood is the life of the body, then Intellectual Property and proprietary information is the nucleous of the cell.

Quote:
Try calling Coca-Cola and ask what their secret formula is. Better yet, call KFC and see if they would be willing to share the Colonel's secret mix of "herbs and spices" with you. In the end, who cares as long as Coca-Cola and KFC taste good. I'm being facetious of course, so please don't get offended.


Good analogy.

 

[PT1]

Trust me everything made in China has been reverse engineered. Everything!

 

[JohnBrowning]

Steve S. You must have a twisted sense of humor!!! First Schaeffers does not give better results then other products. In fact I believe thqt their are much better performing products sitting on the shelf at Walmart for a lot less then what Schaeffers cost to get it shipped to your door! Delvac1300,Delo400and RTS are all easily on par with Schaeffers and are cheaper and available retail. M1,Redline and Amsoil can spank anything Schaffers makes especialy if we are talking Toyota's Audi and BMW's and Honda's and such. Now I do like Schaeffers specialty products but since they are now considered Haz Mat items that does me no good with out a local distributor.

In fact if Schaeffers want's to send me 4 quarts of their best oil to try in Camry to prove me wrong I will gladly run it and pay for the UOA! So Schaeffers anything in a 5W30,5W40 or 5W50 will do. I have always wanted to try your 5W40 and 5W50. I would be happy to compare them to M1,Castrol Syntec or RTS depending on the viscosity you send me. I will not hold my breath though on anyone sending me 4 quarts plus 1 in case of consumption.

 

[BerndV]

I would be happy to donate funds towards this type of analysis.

 

[salesrep]

"M1,Redline and Amsoil can spank anything Schaffers"
Thats way too big of a statement to warrant fighting back. They make some fine products and I am sure that some occasionally whip us, I am certain that we outperform in many arenas.


"compare them to M1,Castrol Syntec or RTS depending on the viscosity you send me. I will not hold my breath though on anyone sending me 4 quarts plus 1 in case of consumption."....and why would we do this?