Additive Clash and oil filters

[Shannow]

I recall reading some of my Grandad's Mechanix Illustrated mags, and the advertisements for oil filters that contained a block of "additives" that repleted the addtives in the oil as your driving stripped them from the oil.

It made me wonder.

* How did the filter manufacturer know what was needed for all engines, and oil combinations ?

* Is there some sort of equilibrium state between solid and soluble additives ?

* Given the V.W. specs that change regularly, should they have such a store of "holiday fishfood" in their engine specific oil filters that keeps the additives exactly where the should be for long life ?

 

[MolaKule]

quote:

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It made me wonder.

* How did the filter manufacturer know what was needed for all engines, and oil combinations ?

* Is there some sort of equilibrium state between solid and soluble additives ?

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To answer your first question, the filter manufacturer didn't know what was needed, it was a gimmic.

In answer to your second question, there is no equilibrium, due to differing rates of change. occuring

 

[Gary Allan]

Wasn't that the filter that had someting like a cake of Arm&Hammer baking soda in it? (visions of dropping Salvo laundry detergent tablets into the washer machine).

The theory being that the oil would "suspend" the buffering agent as it turned acid.....

I guess they could use lithium carbonate (like for my spa) with the added byproduct that your engine would be in much better mental health

 

[TallPaul]

A better idea might be to sell you 5 quarts of oil and one quart of top up oil (same brand and meant for the oil it goes with), which would be additive rich to make up for the additive depletion. The longer you run the oil, the more you add the top up mixture. Hmmmm, seems there was something like that called STP 6000 Mile Oil Extender, but it didn't catch on and so went off the market.

 

[Shannow]

quote:

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Originally posted by MolaKule:

quote:

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It made me wonder.

* How did the filter manufacturer know what was needed for all engines, and oil combinations ?

* Is there some sort of equilibrium state between solid and soluble additives ?

---

To answer your first question, the filter manufacturer didn't know what was needed, it was a gimmic.

In answer to your second question, there is no equilibrium, due to differing rates of change. occuring

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Yeah, I know. For some reason it popped into my head, after reading about the VW oil specs and all.

Get the OEMs to build an "additive" block that screws into the rocker cover, then chuck in the basestock of your choice to meet their one off specs.

 

[TC]

A modern variation of this is the Fram filters, still sold I believe, that release Teflon in the oil over time. A very effective means of distributing a product which has been proven to be ineffective throughout the oil. I'm hoping that they'll build filters that leech corn starch and/or cinnamon into the oil...because corn starch feels nice n' smooth and I like cinnamon. Makes just as much sense as Teflon, actually.

Dumping new additives into old oil will never make up for the fact that:
-The oil is loaded with dirt and soot.
-The oil is contaminated with acids, and potentially with anything from water to antifreeze to fuel with engines in need of repairs.
-The oil filter may be partially clogged and ready for service.
-Etc., etc., etc.

 

[Jason8691]

I have a question on this Additive Clash issue. I have learned just enough on this site to be dangerous, so here goes! From what I have seen on here, there are only a few companies that make additive packages for most major oil companies right? And most additive packages contain the same compounds just in different amounts right? How then can they clash if you mix different brands? If say Redline and Mobil contain the same compounds only in different amounts, why would it be bad to mix them? I dont know if these can be explained or not, but I am really curious about this.

 

[TC]

I'm not sure if "additive clash" truly relates to the original thread, which addressed supplementing old oil with new additives. Personally I've never read anything about common motor oil additives "clashing." Perhaps this is either an urban myth, or a legitimate (but now obsolete) concern from an earlier era of oils..?

From everything I've read, all modern motor oils, brake fluids, and gasolines -- just to name three fluids -- are designed, if not outright required by law, to be fully compatible with each other unless specifically stated otherwise. That said, it would obviously seem foolish to add a mix of Chevron, Mobil, Kendall, and Pennzoil oils to a crankcase "just for the fun of experimenting." Clearly oil firms seek to optimize their base oil/additive package formulas through specific performance and testing criteria, and such a hypothetical mix above would throw that optimization out the window, even if the oils were all technically compatible. So perhaps "additive clash" can more accurately be referred to as "not an optimal mix" or "untested blend" (to use oil nerd talk)..?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by TC:

So perhaps "additive clash" can more accurately be referred to as "not an optimal mix" or "untested blend" (to use oil nerd talk)..?

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When I have used the term additive clash on here, I'm not using it in such a way that I would think that the oil would turn into some sort of dangerous mixture, but simply that if you mix two different types of oil that have different additive packs, you will likely end up with an oil that will not perform as well for longer drains, because it's TBN could drop faster. This is why when switching from one oil to a different brand, it's not good to immediately do a very long interval. Do a short to medium one first, just to be safe.

 

[dropitby]

Ok the myth of mixing is ok. Then If you want to do a extended change on Super-tech 5W30 oil change. Add a Qt. of Redline to boost the TBN and go the extra 2000 miles.I use this example because a UOA on a Elantra looked great except the TBN at 4000 was .8.If this would work your inexpensive OCI would still be cheaper than 5 Qts of RL to begin with. The Nissan dealer adds Wynns to the oil every 15000. I for one wonder if this is another acceptable choice. Buy the 5/30 oil at Wal-Mart and put in Oil Extream concerntrate.Any view on these options.