Adding Diesel Before Oil Change

[Hasbeen]

I've heard ATF doesn't have many detergents in it, but it's decently safe since it's a 10w oil.


Atf Has got to be the highest detergent oil product I know of! It`s commonly used in Rotory engines, Poured into the sparkplug holes and let set overnight. Desolves the carbon deposits around the apex seals! works everytime!!

 

[darkdan]

Well, now I've heard both. =)

 

[Shannow]

I've used kerosene on a severely sludged motor (my first car). It displaced at least enough sludge to allow the best part of a full oil change.

Didn't seem to harm anything.

 

[TC]

"MYTH: Adding a quart of ATF the day before an oil change will clean your engine. ATF added to the motor oil will clean the engine due to the high levels of detergent in ATF."
"FACT: ATF does not contain detergent chemistry. ATF does contain dispersants, which have properties similar to detergents. But ATF is not formulated to withstand the combustion environment inside the engine. Quaker State® recommends that you keep the fluids where they belong: motor oil in the crankcase, and automatic transmission fluid in the transmission. "

http://www.quakerstate.com/pages/carcare/whattoknow.asp

 

[RavenTai]

I recently purchased a ’96 lx450 4.5L inline six (same as Toyota Land Lruiser) w/106k miles. the previous owner kept up with the oil changes w/dino (I have the receipts) but looking in the oil filler there is a good bit of varnish on the top of the head and some hard deposits on the bottom of the oil cap, the oil was changed shortly before the sale and looks clean on the stick (not much cleaning power if the motor is dirty and oil is clean) brand and viscosity unknown

Thinking of trying a one time kerosene flush and would like some feedback on method,

I read the directions for several of the store-bought kerosene products they say to pour it all in and start the vehicle run at idle for X minutes, seams to me that if the oil and kerosene did not mix right a way that it may pick up a slug of pure kerosene at some point (does pure kerosene have enough viscosity to protect bearing at idle? I do not think so)


What I was thinking of doing;

1 starting the engine cold and adding a few ounces every minute or so to try to mix it in more evenly hopefully getting the full quart in before the engine gets warm enough to dislike a room temperature liquid,

2 let idle until reaching operating temperature (warm solvents work better) shut down let soak overnight+ to dissolve deposits,

3 next morning start again get to operating temp (again only idle)

4 drain oil/kerosene mix remove old oil filter

5 remove lower pan (it has 2 the upper one a cast aluminum structural pan that helps support the transmission and a lower sheet metal oil sump) clean the pickup screen and pan examine visible pats of bottom end

6 fill with a dino HDMO like chevron Delo for a short OCI (300 miles or a week or so) to remove kerosene residue

7 a longer OCI (2k or so) with chevron Delo to ensure residue removal

8 Mobil Delvac 1, 3k for first OCI going longer on later OCI’s as UOA’s allow


Also what can be done during this process to judge its effectiveness? (short of uoa’s), I was thinking of blotter tests at each step also possibly using a new filter for the flush and cutting both the current and flush filters open and comparing afterward. Possibly before and after pics of the dip stick, under filler cap and area visible from filler


I know some of you think it is nuts (still not 100% convinced myself) but I have seen the over the counter products used quite often in friends cars the oil that comes out is watery nasty black cut open a filter after one of these and it was full of carbon, I cant say that no damage occurred but not outward sings of damage some of these were marginal engines and they survived, I think at low load idle the low viscosity kero/oil mix should still be able to prevent metal to metal contact

[ February 17, 2004, 07:01 AM: Message edited by: RavenTai ]

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZmOz:

quote:

---

Originally posted by widman:
There are others who fill it with laundry detergent and water and run it a few minutes

---

Oh god...do people actually do that?!

---

I had a guy tell me that the "detergent" in oil is just Tide.

-T

 

[Cary]

quote:

---

Originally posted by RavenTai:
I recently purchased a ’96 lx450 4.5L inline six (same as Toyota Land Lruiser) w/106k miles. the previous owner kept up with the oil changes w/dino (I have the receipts) but looking in the oil filler there is a good bit of varnish on the top of the head and some hard deposits on the bottom of the oil cap, the oil was changed shortly before the sale and looks clean on the stick (not much cleaning power if the motor is dirty and oil is clean) brand and viscosity unknown

---

Let me save you time, money, and a lot of trouble. 1) Go to your autoparts store and buy 8 quarts of Mobil 1 0w-40, 2) go to the Toyota Dealer and ask for some Japanese small filters, 3) Change the oil and filter, 4) Drive 7500 miles and repeat.

Don't believe me, look at my UOA on my LC with 122,000 miles, where I was unsure of the past oil change history.

Cary

 

[heyjay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by T-Keith:

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZmOz:

quote:

---

Originally posted by widman:
There are others who fill it with laundry detergent and water and run it a few minutes

---

Oh god...do people actually do that?!

---

I had a guy tell me that the "detergent" in oil is just Tide.

-T

---

Well, the "surfactants" (Surface Active Agents) are from a large family of organic chemicals that all have the same end result: they clean things by bonding and releasing dirt.

The additive chemistry is complicated as too much surfactant can break down a regular oil's polymer additives. Excessive surfactants will also destroy seals.

Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 appears to have a high treat of surfactants, so if used from new a motor stays spotless. Mobil 1 15W-50 is a close second.

Jerry

 

[dustyjoe1]

Atf Has got to be the highest detergent oil product I know of! It`s commonly used in Rotory engines, Poured into the sparkplug holes and let set overnight. Desolves the carbon deposits around the apex seals! works everytime!!

Doesn't make half bad motor oil either for 2-cycle engines. Old timer told me it dissipated heat better than motor oil....It actually works.

 

[MolaKule]

dustyjoe,

Current ATF's have a very low level of detergents and some dispersants. Check the Virgin Oil section for an analysis of both blended and synthetic ATF's, and you will see add levels at about 1/10 that of an SL motor oil.

The only thing ATF does is thin the oil a bit.

ARX or LC or Neutra would be a better choice.

Kerosene and diesel fuel only adds to the sulfur content of an engine. The stuff is ok as an engine tear-down solvent, but not for engine cleaning.

I have to agree with Ken2, in that stating "I never had a problem" proves nothing. If anything, it only says that you were lucky and the engine was very tolerant of abuse.

[ February 18, 2004, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[cryptokid]

mola, if this is true that atf is low in detergents, (i am not claiming otherwise) then what is it about atf which is so good at freeing stuck rings?

 

[SteveD2]

Not just stuck rings, but noisy lifters. I've heard story after story about ATF fixing that. If it doesn't have any more detergent then why does it work?

 

[RavenTai]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Cary:

Let me save you time, money, and a lot of trouble.

Cary

---

well go ahead and say you told me so, did the kero flush head still looks varnished nothing wound up in the filter not much cleaning power, the oil did darken slightly so it picked up a bit but nothing substantial

I now see why the directions on the OTC products say to run for 10 minutes and drain, if you let it get up to operating temp and then let it sit seams most of it evaporates, when I drained no kerosene smell could be detected in the oil and the level was back to normal

doing the first of 2 short oci's with chevron delo, after that I am going to try Delvac 1

 

[dustyjoe1]

Molakule,
OOps forgot the quotation marks....I was quoting hasbeen above. I would not put tranny oil in my engine unless it was seized solid and had to break the pistons loose, but I have used it as engine oil in a two cycle, for quite a while actually, and it seemed to work fine for that application, but then in a two cycle its effectively working as a tranny fluid anyway, top end is lubricated by the mix.

 

[darkdan]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ZmOz:
Not just stuck rings, but noisy lifters. I've heard story after story about ATF fixing that. If it doesn't have any more detergent then why does it work?

---

I'm not sure, have no proof, I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but if I had to guess....

Since it doesn't lubricate as well and as intended to do, maybe the extra friction breaks crap free?

 

[Lubricious]

I surprised that this use of Diesel fuel has people in disagreement.
Using Diesel or Kero as a flush is a time-honored way of cleaning sludged engines.
Kero is an excellent FI cleaner as well. Some branded gasolines use Kero as a detergent in their additives.