Added turbo in my '12 Scion tC. Which oil now?

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: dave1251
I am sorry but without knowing your oil temperatures, oil pressures, and UOA's. I can not give you a accurate answer.

Yes, you should definitely install an oil pressure gauge and an oil temp' gauge would be good as well.
Basically if you're not going to be tracking the car and you keep your oil temps below about 105C, the M1 0W-20 will be more than fine. If you're going to routinely see oil temp's above that, the suggestion of draining out half of the 0W-20 and topping up with some M1 0W-40 to give you a 0W-30 is a good one.

For subsiquent oil changes any oil meeting the HTO-06 spec' such as PP 5W-30 would be good again subject to what what your oil pressure readings are and oil temp's.

 

[addyguy]

M1 0W-40
GC 0W-30
RT6 5W-40, or any HDEO 5W-40
Amsoil HDD 5W-30
Amsoil ZRT 10W-30

...just some ideas.....

 

[chasdaman]

Stockrex: The Garret GTX2863R (.63AR) turbocharger is connected directly to the car's oil system.

I could have my UltraGauge display my oil temp & pressure. I'll find out soon enough if the Scion reports this information via OBD II. If not, then I'll make sure to find another way to keep track of these figures.

Thank you all for your advice -- I'm leaning towards the semi-consensus, which is stick with the brand new synthetic 0w-20 that's already in there, and move up to a high-spec synthetic 5w-30 soonish.

 

[chasdaman]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Put whatever oil you want in it. The engine no longer has any warranty, so you are completely on your own ~/~

Why would anybody add an aftermarket turbo to a brand new car???


I've never understood this type of post in a forum. The deed is done, I can't go back now. In the hopes that your question is not a rhetorical snipe, I'll answer it.

At the time I purchased the car, my goals were different, and my expectations of my finances were different also. In short, things changed, as things tend to do. My crystal ball was not as forthcoming as the ones I see in movies.

 

[mpvue]

Originally Posted By: chasdaman
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Put whatever oil you want in it. The engine no longer has any warranty, so you are completely on your own ~/~

Why would anybody add an aftermarket turbo to a brand new car???


I've never understood this type of post in a forum. The deed is done, I can't go back now. In the hopes that your question is not a rhetorical snipe, I'll answer it.

At the time I purchased the car, my goals were different, and my expectations of my finances were different also. In short, things changed, as things tend to do. My crystal ball was not as forthcoming as the ones I see in movies.

chasdaman, you've been here since dec '07, but only have 11 posts, so I'd have to assume you aren't familiar with the culture here.
basically, when you throw out a question, you're opening up a discussion with random people, so you will get random answers and comments.
you can either ignore them or address them.
FWIW, I bet a lot of people were wondering why you would modify a brand new car, but only one guy asked.
most everyone here wouldn't be so quick to void a warranty, and would have used the money to buy a higher performing car to begin with.

 

[chasdaman]

I understand that curiosity, which is why I answered it. I won't go into detail too much except to say that my situation changed for the better, and afforded me these kinds of modifications.

 

[accent2012]

This thread is worthless without pictures....

 

[bluesubie]

If the Mobil1 0W-20 burns like the 5W-30 does in Subaru turbos, just drive a couple of hundred miles and add some 15W-50.

Keep an eye on your oil level!

I would probably run anything that is not Resource Conserving (like GC or M1 0W-40). I would also check with Mobil1 and the turbo kit company to see what they recommend.

-Dennis

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: bluesubie

I would probably run anything that is not Resource Conserving

Oils that meet the HTO-06 turbo spec' are "Resourse Conserving" so what's you're problem with them?

 

[edhackett]

The HTO-06 spec' is just a deposit specification. It says nothing about it's ability to protect an engine now being subjected to cylinder pressures and bearing loads that it was not designed for.

Ed

 

[raytseng]

i think you should try a bit harder to bug the turbo manufacturer. Did you actively try calling them up? or just passively searched their website or used email? Electronic communication is too easy to just ignore.

Alternatively, find someone else is running the same turbo (scion forums?) and ask there. If it is a kit, you can't be the first user of this kit, right?

 

[Vikas]

Assuming you don't think I was sniping, the answer to your original question would also be pretty straight-forward and I bet you already know it. For example, a good synthetic changed every 5K will NOT be wrong.

Is the rest of the drive-train in that car beefy enough to handle the added power and torque? OR are you planning to put new clutch, transmission and drive axles?

Honestly, you did not think somebody would ask you these questions?
- Vikas

 

[bluesubie]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
The HTO-06 spec' is just a deposit specification. It says nothing about it's ability to protect an engine now being subjected to cylinder pressures and bearing loads that it was not designed for.

Ed

-Dennis

 

[chasdaman]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Assuming you don't think I was sniping, the answer to your original question would also be pretty straight-forward and I bet you already know it. For example, a good synthetic changed every 5K will NOT be wrong.


It takes a foundation of knowledge to know what you suggest I already knew, and oil is not my speciality. I know enough to understand that there are differences of oil, and opinions. Sure enough, my question provoked a host of different recommendations of what is optimal. Optimal being, perhaps only 5% better (whatever constitutes better) than run-of-the-mill, but nonetheless, people are always interested in optimization of things. Life isn't moot and without purpose.

Quote:

Is the rest of the drive-train in that car beefy enough to handle the added power and torque? OR are you planning to put new clutch, transmission and drive axles?


Clutch is being beefed up, along with an OS Giken limited slip differential. The rest of the drive train is stock, for now, along with the engine internals. I intend to explore further upgrades in the future.

Quote:

Honestly, you did not think somebody would ask you these questions?
- Vikas


Increasingly off-topic, but here it goes: when I'm googling around and doing research, I dislike reading threads that meander too far from the main topic. They're not as useful as one that keeps itself as concise and on-point as possible. When I can, I practice my own medicine. That's my preference, I'm just one person so I can't tell others what to do. If I ask someone what time it is, and instead they interpret and reply with "oh there's plenty of time, don't worry," I just repeat the question. I'm not saying interpreting doesn't have its place, however.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
The HTO-06 spec' is just a deposit specification. It says nothing about it's ability to protect an engine now being subjected to cylinder pressures and bearing loads that it was not designed for.
Ed

HONDA HTO-06 "Specifically formulated for Turbocharged engines".
Cleanliness, deposit control and oxidation control are part of the specification. It also only comes in a light 5W-30 grade which is all the OEMs with turbo engines consider to be necessary.

In this aftermarket application, the HTO-06 suggestion is already a grade heavier than spec'. Going two grades heavier may very well be counter-productive if the oil temp's are not high enough to allow proper cooling oil flow.
From the sounds of things the OP is going to look into monitoring his oil pressure and oil temp's. One important thing he'll need to know is his oil pump by-pass pressure setting.
He should also look up the oil pressure spec's for the stock engine. If it corresponds to say 60 psi at elevated rev's then he could allow 70 or maximum 75 psi to compensate for the higher power output. Under no circumstances should he run an oil that's too viscous that he can't use maximum rev's without going into by pass mode.

Additionally, if the turbo kit was specifically for his engine he should try and get the recommended minimum OP spec's from the tuner if available. This is much more useful than any particular oil grade rec' since oil temp's can vary dramatically in turbo applications depending on how the car is used.; i.e., racing vs street use.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: chasdaman
The deed is done, I can't go back now. In the hopes that your question is not a rhetorical snipe, I'll answer it.


Follow CATERHAM's suggestion about installing oil pressure and oil temperature gauges. If you've gone this far by installing a turbo, installing these useful gauges will help you make an informed choice.

 

[chasdaman]

Agreed on the gauges. All that's part and parcel to doing this properly, I intend to do. Thank you for the advice.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: chasdaman
All that's part and parcel to doing this properly, I intend to do.


Now, between the FSM and the builder, you just need to get minimum oil pressure values at various revs. I always like how some manuals give some useful data, then another will just give the minimum RPMs at idle.

 

[Geonerd]

I'm a big fan of the Stribeck Curve. In light of the modestly increased crank and small-end bearing loads, I'd aim for an increase in HTHS to 3.5 or higher. Try GC, one of several flavors of M1 (10-30/40HM, 0-40, TD), or a similar 'thick' oil. A quality dino 15w-40 would work in a pinch too.

 

[brianl703]

If you're going to use, for example, an oil specified by a vehicle manufacturer for their turbocharged vehicles, you need to consider what the manufacturer has done to make the engine reliable and "easy" on oil.

In the case of my Saab 93 2.0T, here's just a few things that were engineered into the car because the engine is turbocharged:

1)Oil-to-water cooler.
2)Increased oil capacity (6.5 quarts).
3)Turbo is water-cooled.
4)Piston oil jets.
5)Sodium-filled exhaust valves (better heat transfer out of the head).
6)Cooling fans stay on after engine shut-off if the coolant is hot enough, which allows the turbo to cool better via thermosiphon effect, which presumably reduces oil coking.