Acura says leave oil in

Messages
6
Location
Denver, CO
Hi all, I've got a newbie question for you. I just bought a new Acura TSX for my wife and my buddy referred me to your site. He suggested I change the oil pretty early (500 miles or so)because it is a new car. But I found this FAQ on oil at Acura's Ownerlink website. http://www.ahm-ownerlink.com/Maintenance/maint_faqs.asp?faq=oil Here's the blurb: ================================================ Why should I wait to change the oil the first time? Your Acura engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process. American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions. =============================================== Anybody know what "special oil" means here? Should I do what they say or swap it out anyway? If so, with what - I see a lot of folks recommend MobilOne...in my case 5W30 I guess. My "regular interval" here would be 5K miles... Thanks for any tips, Benched
 
Messages
5,358
Location
Gone
benched, I'm with MikeySoft all the way on this one. To leave the factory fill in that long goes way 'gainst my grain, BUT you ignore the OEMs guidance at your peril, so I say, "leave it in." Apparently the factory fill is high in moly (a good thing) and maybe it has some other characteristics that make it "special." Just try not to think about it and hopefully this first 5K interval will go by quickly. [Big Grin]
 
Messages
372
Location
Rancho Cucamonga, CA
I was so uncomfortable with going 5k that I decided to follow the severe schedule for the V6 instead of the 4 cylinder. [Wink] The V6 calls for 3750 miles, I ended up changing at 3864.
 
Messages
7,775
Location
Oklahoma
We know from UOA's that the Honda factory fill is absolutely loaded with moly and it's also not a bad oil. Seems to hold up OK, I'd leave it to 5K.
 
Messages
885
Location
North Carolina
Just a comment about the following: "Your Acura engine was delivered with an oil that is specially formulated for new engines that have not yet developed their "natural" wear patterns and may contain minute particles from the manufacturing process. American Honda strongly recommends this special oil be left in the engine long enough for these wear patterns to develop, usually until the first maintenance interval specified in your Owner's Manual, based on your specific driving conditions. " I never figured out how a piston going up/down in a cylinder could improve on the criss-cross pattern specifically honed into cylinder walls to prevent oil loss....I keep hearing about the "natural wear patterns"....I never wanted to see ANY "natural wear patterns"....they usually just get naturally worse.... But as for the rest of the "leave the original oil" in comment, I agree, they probably do give the original oil some help if they really do want it left in a full 5k..the filter is supposed to get the particles, the oil is supposed to lube. see y'all Rando
 

benched

Thread starter
Messages
6
Location
Denver, CO
quote:
Originally posted by MikeySoft: Keep the factory oil in for 5K. See: http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=003060
Thanks for the pointer MikeySoft! Also to everybody else that has responded. Unfortunately, I just realized I was looking at the "severe" maintenance schedule when I said 5K was my interval. Mine is surely closer to "normal" than "severe" so now the interval is 10K miles. Yowza...maybe just do one after the first 5K and then settle into the 10K routine? I'm surprised they don't even want you to rotate the tires until 10K miles too...seems long for a FWD car. But maybe new cars really are that much better. Thanks, Benched
 
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9,448
Location
USA
Well, I do not belive in the 5000 mile break in oil!!! The filter is not going to catch the main wear particles. It only going to catch the big 18-25 micron and larger sized particles! I like the 500 mile rule but for pete sake at least change it by 1000. If it makes you feel better put 5W20 Honda oil in it. It does not take 5000 miles to break in the engine. The idustry pretty much determined that 98% of accelerated breakin wear has finished between 600-1000 miles. Mind you this was in the 50's,60's and 70's when the machneing was realy rough and alot of the finishing was done by breakin. Todays engines are much closer to their finished form when they leave the factory. Some engineers on the fringes claim 15-20 minute and some claim that the first 20 miles is all you get! What would cause an engine to require 5000 miles of use to be broke in? [ August 04, 2003, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
 
Messages
423
Location
Boston, MA
quote:
.. Mine is surely closer to "normal" than "severe" so now the interval is 10K miles. ..
I have an 03 Accord with the same severe/normal intervals. My driving is also "normal". I changed my first oil at 7.5k, I plan to keep the 7.5k interval. I may go sooner if I do some "severe" driving this winter. The botton line, keep the first oil for at least 5K miles.
 
Messages
4,107
Location
Savannah, GA
Keep it in for 5,000. BTW, I recently looked at the TSX, nice car. Since there are only 2 sets of options for the car(6 Speed Manual/5-Speed Auto and Navigation or no Navagation) which ones did you get? -Joe
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
Some engines do take longer to fully break in though. Take the LS1 engine for example. Many guys do dyno testing when the engine is new and then every so often while the miles get put on, and most people notice that it takes at least 10k for the engine to show it's full potential. I found the same thing with my LS1 when I had it, the quarter mile trap speeds kept going up and up and up and it wasn't until about 10k that the power stopped increasing on it's own. It's not uncommon for an LS1 with no changes at all to dyno 5-10rwhp more at 10k than it did at 5k.
 

Jay

Messages
1,607
Location
Idaho Falls, ID
Honda is using steel cylinder liners for many of it's new engines. Steel is a much more ductile metal than cast iron, so it's break-in characteristics are different than cast iron. An engine breaks in either by plastic deformation of the asperities (high points) or by instantaneous welding and tearing away of the asperities. Of the two, plastic deformation is much more desirable. Plastic deformation spreads the stress over a greater surface area without generating a wear particle or another rough surface as when asperities weld and tear away. The break-in oil is loaded with moly and the moly helps insure that most of the wear-in occurs by plastic deformation of the asperities. I kept the factory fill oil in my Acura RSX for 5,000 miles and the oil held up very well. The break-in wear metals were not excessive, and when I cut open the oil filter and examined the media there was very little visible metal in the pleats. [ August 04, 2003, 08:57 PM: Message edited by: Jay ]
 

CJH

Messages
489
Location
Pennsylvania
quote:
Originally posted by MikeySoft:
quote:
.. Mine is surely closer to "normal" than "severe" so now the interval is 10K miles. ..
I have an 03 Accord with the same severe/normal intervals. My driving is also "normal". I changed my first oil at 7.5k, I plan to keep the 7.5k interval. I may go sooner if I do some "severe" driving this winter. The botton line, keep the first oil for at least 5K miles.

I did the same with my 2000 Civic Si. My driving is 50 mile trips (each way) over rural roads with a lot of revving, shifting and braking. Kept the factory fill in until 7,500 miles. Then changed every 7,500 miles with Pennzoil dino. Now the car has 60,000 miles on it and I am switching to Mobil 1 5W30. Now considering whether to keep the 7,500 mile intervals or go to 10,000 miles. I think Honda makes a quality product and knows the most about these cars, so I am reluctant to deviate from their maintenance recommendations.
 
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4,947
Location
VA
It is interesting to note how Honda has changed their "maintenance" requirements for their AT's. It used to be 15K, moved up to 30K, moved up to 45K, this year moved back to 15K. This is what a Honda Tech told me. He said they kept trying to stretch out the maintenance until a lot of AT's starting breaking. Now they have moved the service back to 15K on this year's tranmissions. I don't own a 2003 one, so I can't prove any of this. Pure hearsay from 1 Honda mechanic. Truth or fiction????? My point is...are their recommendations best for us? Or is it best for Honda in maintaining their low maintenance cost??? [Wink] Makes you wonder? Well, it makes me wonder. [Big Grin]
 
Messages
243
Location
Reno Nevada
Break-in wear in the cylinders is (or should be) almost exclusively taking place at the rings and pistons, not the cylinder walls. Ideally, plastic distortion or metal flow should lead to proper fit and seating of the rings in the piston groves and correct minor irregularities in the shape of the parts. Jay's explanation of proper break-in is correct. His posted oil analysis clearly illustrates: 1) the factory oil really is a special break-in product that is loaded with friction modifier, 2) 5000 miles is not too long to go. The purpose of the honing pattern on the cylinder walls is to hold oil. This should not change during break-in or normal operation. I would change the factory fill after 5K miles or 6 months, which ever happens first.
 
Messages
661
Location
Ottawa, Ont CANADA
I would have liked to keep my factory fill a little longer, but at the recommendation of the dealer, the oil was changed at 4731km, as the car was being stored for the winter. No ill effect has been observed, although I would like to do a UOA on the current oil. >> I am thinking of keeping a sample in a clean container until I get a UOA kit good or bad idea ??? [Confused] Jean
 
Messages
998
Location
Lexington, SC
What does Acura recommend if you have to add a quart of oil during the break in period? Use the off-the-shelf oil or use the special break in oil? Where do you get the factory break in oil? Does the dealer have this special formula oil in stock? I prefer the old procedure of first change at 500 miles and then go to reg. interval for your car after that. In response to someones post above, you are trying to seat the rings, not change the cross hatch pattern on the cylinders. If you don't seat the rings, the car will burn oil.
 

benched

Thread starter
Messages
6
Location
Denver, CO
quote:
Originally posted by joee12: Keep it in for 5,000. BTW, I recently looked at the TSX, nice car. Since there are only 2 sets of options for the car(6 Speed Manual/5-Speed Auto and Navigation or no Navagation) which ones did you get? -Joe
It's my wife's car so it's an automatic...even though she's driven manuals all her life! Oh well...still, I really like the car and the automanual shifting is pretty slick. It's kind of a weird purchase experience - Acura has only one manufacturer option (navigation), but a ton of dealer-installed options. I don't know why they have gone to this sales model. It made it harder for me to work a deal though so maybe that is why. ;-) Benched
 
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