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Originally Posted By: kschachn
Little guys who can't afford to demonstrate that the product they wish to sell meets the standards they say it meets don't have any business being in business. A standard is a standard whether you happen to like it or not. I for one do not wish to live in motor oil anarchy land where I really have no clue whether the oil I'm buying is suitable for my application or not.

I think in years gone by it was part of the mystique or secret club to sell oils that didn't demonstrate they carried a standard. It played into the marketing strategy of those companies to say in whispered tones, "no, we don't test it because it's better than the standard" or "we prefer to put our money into R&D rather than spending money on unnecessary standards testing". They would rather you be wowed by watching the state fair apparatus smoke and screech on different oils since that is more viscerally appealing than numbers on a bottle.

Sure it sounds good to claim The Man is just forcing standards and specs down our throat but the reality is that modern engines require modern oils and obtaining approvals and specs is the only way anyone is ever going to know which oils actually are appropriate for an engine.


Standards are not necessarily providing for the best oil. I detest standards in my work. It limits creativity. The people creating the standards aren't the best and brightest. Small companies live on word of mouth and one can argue that's the best criteria.

In the power world, the relay made by the smallest company reigns supreme because of real world experience observed by utility companies, not laboratory testing or standards. These are extremely important smart devices that assure the grid works properly, avoiding widespread blackouts.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I like the colour test, but I've used more green oils, and had great results using them.

I guess it depends upon the scale I choose. Perhaps used oil from a diesel will come out on top, even ahead of RP and green oils.
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turtlevette: Standards are also designed to keep small, unfocused minds on the task at hand, without wasting resources going on wild goose chases. As an engineer, you cannot dismiss standards out of hand, at least not with a straight face.
 
Standard exist as there were too many people who "knew boats" and killed people.

The are the minimum acceptable baseline, and absolutely nothing stops anyone from doing a better job.

e.g. the Castrol edge 5W30 that I use is only rated SL...states that it meets all of the engine test requirements of SN, but they have SL levels of phosphorous.

But have done the engine tests...not thrown together a contraption that the builder acknowledges is nothing like any part of an engine, then made statements that imply a miraculous level of precision...and then discounted the actual tests and standards as irrelevant as they don't perform on his machine (or his stovetop).
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Standard exist as there were too many people who "knew boats" and killed people.

The are the minimum acceptable baseline, and absolutely nothing stops anyone from doing a better job.

e.g. the Castrol edge 5W30 that I use is only rated SL...states that it meets all of the engine test requirements of SN, but they have SL levels of phosphorous.

But have done the engine tests...not thrown together a contraption that the builder acknowledges is nothing like any part of an engine, then made statements that imply a miraculous level of precision...and then discounted the actual tests and standards as irrelevant as they don't perform on his machine (or his stovetop).


The problem is inspectors and general public that can't make discernments. The spec calls for a 4 inch slab and I pour a 6 inch slab and I get rejected because its not what the spec says. Man this happens every day. I bet you've had people riding your tail about modifications and new design that isn't exactly what their sheet of paper says and they're too dumb to understand that's it's better.

You're always railing against overregulation and bureaucracy but you think an oil passing 100 criteria in a lab is the holy grail? Rather than real world results as seen by user groups.
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Proprietary info, thats why. They may be able to say theirs surpasses sn rating by x %..but they would need to prove that the competitors oil surpasses it by less. Also, I dont think the little guys want to start challenging the big dogs..since we all know who has the most money to argue who is best. I dont think its zero facts..just very few that we can base oil on.


I would also add that claims of surpassing a spec or a competitor by "X" amount of percentage does not really mean anything or quantifiable of what it means to a consumer.

Surpassing a measured standard by a percentage does not mean the end user is getting that much more percentage of a better product and end use reliability.
 
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