Accidentally put lubegard black into ATF+4

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Hi guys , I put the wrong friggin lubegard in my recently acquired 2004 Jetta with the 01m transmission. The original fluid had never been serviced, so I serviced it, and accidentally put lubegard black in with Mobil 3309. Mobil 3309 is already an ATF+4 with HFM, so lubegard black which adds more HFM wasn't the right additive. I only added roughly one ounce per quart though. This car has 120K miles, and I suspect the valve body is starting to go out as demonstrated by hard shifts. So it's extra slippery in there for sure. I do slip going up hills, but not any where else but it could have been doing that before. The slip is rev up the hill->downshift as expected->back to upshift immediately. Is slipping a function of the valve body or the transmission itself, or both?
 
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This is the first time that I've heard that 3309 is the same as ATF+4. Neither of those two fluids need any extra HFM. But yes, you should have used LubeGard RED Bottle(or nothing at all). I also never knew that VW's used 3309(T-IV) or ATF-4. I always thought they used something specific to VW/Audi...Hmmmmmm!
 
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ATF+4 is not 3309. If your transmission slips, you go nowhere or backwards on a uphill. The TC unlocked for hills is fine. Slow shift is a transmission issue, low level, wear, crud....
 
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The correct fluid is Pentosin ATF-1, or VW G 052 162 A2. That being said Mobil JWS3309 supposedly compatible as well, however I would always go with the OEM supplier product over an after market supplier. In any case get that Lubeguard [censored] out of there NOW... then do a drain and fill, wait a few hundred miles and do another, and another after that. DO NOT FLUSH! Only a drain and fill. Use ONLY the correct transmission fluid and NOTHING else.
 
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lairdwd

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Hi guys, thank you for your thoughts on this matter. The mobil 3309 is supposedly compatible with the OEM fluid. I did extensive research on this before doing the change. At $5 qt vs $25 - it was a no brainer for me. Perhaps the extra HFM is the only difference between the two and maybe I got lucky and cranked it up to OEM fluid HFM levels. Anyway, it's only slipping up the hill and only if I get on it hard. The rest of the shifting problems are classic valve body wear symptoms - which are well known in this model.
 
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Thing is you don't know what the specific friction modifiers are and how much of them are required, these transaxles are highly sensitive to those specs and the trans computer is programmed to account for them and not other additives. Make sure you leave any additives out and do several drain and fills.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Thing is you don't know what the specific friction modifiers are and how much of them are required, these transaxles are highly sensitive to those specs and the trans computer is programmed to account for them and not other additives. Make sure you leave any additives out and do several drain and fills.
thumbsup Do three more drain and refills. Had you come to BITOG first, we could have steered you in the right direction. Conversion fluids are NOT needed with the modern AT fluids.
Quote:
The mobil 3309 is supposedly compatible with the OEM fluid.
Who stated this?
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
The mobil 3309 is supposedly compatible with the OEM fluid.
Who stated this?
I know I have seen this on a Mobil site at one time in the past, but I cannot find it today... The only thing Mobil claims JWS3309 is compatible with now is VW G-055-025-A2. Not the same fluid of course although it could be a version of the other fluid and supersedes it. But only speculation and I wouldn't risk it. I'd go with the Pentosin ATF-1 or the specified VW part number only. Why risk a totally failed transmission over a few bucks?
 

lairdwd

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Thanks again guys. I stand corrected on the Mobil 3309 being compatible with the VW G 052 162 A2. Another lesson learned. That being said - it seems to for the most part the tranny really likes the JWS3309. In my limited research, it would appear that the G-055-025-A2 and the G 052 162 A2 derive from the same base stock and my speculation is that they have only subtle differences in the add pack . I see numerous multi-spec ATF's claiming they meet both specs, so I am going to assume they aren't that far off from one another. Now take off your fluid purist hat for a moment: Do you think I really need to pull the 3309 out? This car has 120K miles on it and the 01M valve body and tranny are known to be garbage. Maybe a little more friction modifier is good at this point in its life. As long as its not slipping, and throwing codes, is it really warranted? So far so good in that regards. It's a lot better from when it had the old worn out OEM original fill fluid in it, that's for sure.
 
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If for no other reason you should drain it to get rid of the LubeGard additve. Perhaps do a couple of drain and fills with the JWS3309 you have left and then put in the Pentosin ATF-1. Seriously, why not just check around for the lowest price on a 5L jug of Pentosin ATF-1?
 
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Originally Posted By: lairdwd
Do you think I really need to pull the 3309 out?
Yes, because of the additive that shouldn't be in there.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: zrxkawboy
Originally Posted By: lairdwd
Do you think I really need to pull the 3309 out?
Yes, because of the additive that shouldn't be in there.
Exactly. The delta COF verses the Delta relative velocity curves (Du/Dv) for the fluid are totally out of kilter, which means the wet clutches will not hold the torque when you need it and they will overheat.
 

lairdwd

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You guys rock. Thanks so much. I have decided to let it simmer. Other than the slippage when I really get on it up hills, slippage and other symptoms are non-existent. In fact, it's helped immensely for the hard shift problem and seems to be getting better. I hardly added 1 oz to 1 quart of fresh stuff, unlike some other guys that dump the whole bottle in. So in reality, it's at maybe .5 to .75 ounces. Lesson learned here though about the right oil and additives. I'll do another drain and fill eventually, and this time no additive. Cheers, lairdwd
 
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Why not shoot them an email this morning and see what they have to say. They usually reply within 24 hours, and they'll set you straight.
 

lairdwd

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I'll get to another drain and fill cycle eventually. I've still got 6 quarts of the 3309 to use up. You should know that this is a $600 project car that I've been nursing back to health. Honestly, it's running so good right now and there are no physical symptoms of tcc slippage, shuderring, valves sticking, , or anything else (other than up the hill a couple times, and now I know not to get on it that hard up hills). Hard shifts are greatly reduced - and only at low RPM, and only 1 to 2 - which is probably a pressure related issue in the valve body. Gas milease is up above spec now, which is amazing since the previous owners neglected the car. I watch the tach religiously, and don't use the radio currently so I can listen to tranny shifts. First signs of goofiness though, and I'll pull it out. That valve body and 01m transmission are garbage, so if it's running good, I don't want to touch it.
 
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