ABS - Love it or Leave it?

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: Wolf359
Are you using it correctly? You're just supposed to plant your foot on the brake and let the ABS do it's thing. Otherwise for me it's been fine. For me it's been fine. I did blow through a stop sign once on black ice. Planted my foot and it keep pulsing all the way through the sign. I was able to turn the steering wheel as you had to turn right after the sign. That wouldn't work if the front brakes were locked. Both my cars now have ABS, traction control and stability control as standard equipment.


ABS fully engaged in all instances.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Leave it. Pretty much your experiences. I drive in snow and a locked tire plows snow in front of itself which creates more friction.

The only scenario I'd like it would be at highway speeds if I have one side with more traction than the other, like on a crowned road shedding rain.

However the traction control that comes with ABS, that locks the spinning tire so the other side grabs, is impressive and useful.


Agree. Traction control is a great thing - unless you're stuck of course.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
I think all ABS systems are different. The one of my Ford work truck SUCKS. It seems so archaic in design. It literally "vibrates" and shakes the pedal. But the ABS on my 300ZX doesn't affect the pedal at all. Last time I had it engage was many years ago. I was driving north up hwy 6 (where the speed limit is 75). I had the cruise on about 80. Middle of the day,I'm the only car on the road. I see an object way up ahead on the road between the two lanes (it was a two lane rural hwy back then). I gently place my foot over the brake pedal just because. Soon as I get close I see it's a puppy sleeping on the highway. He looks up at me and leisurely gets up and begins to walk across the hwy. I hit the brake pedal as hard as I can and my car comes to a complete stop instantly. No pedal vibration,noise,nothing. Just a precision and precise clean and smooth as silk stop! He looks up at me,yaws,and slowly walks across in front of me haha. I was going to get him and take him home with me,but he proceeded to walk to field and walk away.



My current car pulses and grinds (best way to describe it) like crazy. Maybe some systems are better than others. Nice story with the puppy.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Leave it. Only bad experience with ABS for me was in early stages of application. In particular, many moons ago: 1991 Chevrolet Caprice Police Pkg (the ***** road-whale body style...) Trying to brake it down on approach to clear an intersection running code 3, RR crossing right there, the ABS seemed to chit itself and carry the pulsing way past the tracks.


I wonder if certain conditions confuse the ABS computer?

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: skyactiv
Many GM vehicles of that era had dismal three channel ABS brakes. Stopping distance can be longer on snow or ice with ABS. It's something I've known/realized forever.

https://jalopnik.com/how-to-stop-on-snow-with-abs-brakes-1790269905


Thanks for the link. Interesting. Unfortunately the tires I had, Turanzas, were so [censored] even light braking would engage the ABS.

 

[NHGUY]

Lots of accidents and fatalities around here,on slippery/snowy days where vehicles slide off the highway and roll over with late model ABS equipped jobs.One just last week,a 2007 F150 4x4 that braked hard when the vehicle in front suddenly stopped and the truck veered to the left and went plumb over the passing lane and into the median.77 year old dead and his son slightly injured.There was a case where 4x4 and ABS made no difference.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
ABS good on the road, bad off ... On the street, it'll save your behind more often than not. But off road, it'll get you in big trouble quick. Mud, snow, rocky ledges and drop off's will all cause huge headaches.

For many years (decades) I did trail condition assessments for Calif State Parks. I have 10's of thousands of miles of 4x4 off road under my belt. Have seen plenty of folks T bone a tree, because they could not stop, the ABS would not let them ... Sometimes you just have to slide down a rock fall or a mud chute with all four wheels locked, briefly unlocked, then locked again - ABS will not let you.

Crawling off a rock ledge with 1 or 2 wheels floating (alternately), the ABS will not let you slow enough and you can get badly hurt and tear up a vehicle when it goes sideways into a boulder or rolls ...

State would not let us put a switch on ABS (

), so we just pulled the fuse as soon as we had to put it in 4x4 ... Put the fuse back in when we hit the pavement. No workers comp payout on mod'd trucks ...

In a POV, I'd install a switch and turn ABS off (and have a yellow warning light) when off-road. Turn it back on when I hit the pavement

I agree with being good for dry and wet with snow being a [censored]. My main concern is in an emergency situation where I want to lock up my brakes to maintain direction, not fly off where my front wheels want to take me.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Having driven both I know how to brake safely with both. I still prefer ABS because as long as you hold the wheel straight and plant your foot into the floor the vehicle should keep you as straight as possible and brake as quickly as is safely possible. This has been put to the test again and again. Yes the distance might be a little longer but not by much and only to ensure the vehicle doesn't slide or spin-out.

Some early ABS was horrible like GM's earlier systems with 3 channels and some manufacturers do it better than others today but there is no question that modern ABS if used correctly will decrease the chance of you spinning out and stop in as little distance as is necessary to safely do so.

Now I'm going to hide under this chair because I know what is coming.

No flaming here. Most of us Northerners over 30 are familiar with threshold, lock release or pumping the brakes.

 

[StevieC]

I'm sure in Alberta they appreciate it. With their weather changing every 20 minutes some times and freak snow storms.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Some early ABS was horrible like GM's earlier systems with 3 channels and some manufacturers do it better than others today but there is no question that modern ABS if used correctly will decrease the chance of you spinning out and stop in as little distance as is necessary to safely do so.

Absolutely. Besides, trying to find a vehicle without ABS these days is a bit of a chore, to say the least.

 

[Alex_V]

The stability control on my Cruze has saved my butt twice - but I didn't have my foot on the brake either time. Just operation of the plain old ABS, I've never had it intervene that I felt it benefited my stop. One particular downhill-to-an-intersection I drove the Cruze, and then my '67 Suburban, over when it was slushy, I had much better control over the Suburban than the Cruze from the ABS having fits with the inevitable wheel slip.

 

[OneEyeJack]

ABS equals going where you point the car under hard braking that would otherwise lock at least one wheel unless of course you close your eyes and say, "Oh, darn". You just have to pay attention enough to handle the braking distance. If you hit something under braking it's your fault in most cases unless someone else does something unexpected and I don't mean the car in front of you going the same direction. ABS gets some knocks when people are two car lengths apart at 70 mph and the car in front brakes and there's a crash. If you're the car in back, you own the crash. In bad weather or offroad you just have to be a bit more careful and do your learning all by yourself as you go.

ABS and stability/traction control are good but you should understand how they work and in a safe place and at a safe time, try them out. It should be part of learning how to drive. You can turn off the entertainment system, put down the phone, ignore the touchscreen and give it a try. In the future the first time you don't hit something you'll be impressed.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: ndfergy
Not a huge fan especially in the winter. Below are some of my experiences:

Early 90's, chevy cavalier rental, first experience. Blew through a stop sign on a bumpy dirt backroad.

~96, friends Chevy Astro, sheet ice in the parking lot. Wouldn't stop but continued creeping after starting from higher idle. Had to put it in neutral to stop in time.

Current car with factory Bridgestone Turanza EL-400 AS (since replaced). First snowfall In early December 2016 just prior to putting on my winters (Gislaved Nordfrost 100). Braking performance was downright dangerous. Had to use my handbrake for more effective low speed braking.


That's because in snow and ice ABS isn't going to help you. And if your in the U.S. running middle of the-road all season tires that get "hard" when it gets cold they REALLY are not going to help you.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: CKN


That's because in snow and ice ABS isn't going to help you.


And that's hard to swallow. A so-called safety device needs to make things safer 100% of the time. To compromise in one area to enhance another is a moral quandary.

I do appreciate ABS systems that let you lock up at parking lot speeds, where you'd presumably be in control in technical driving. Wish it didn't take a decade of beta-testing to get to this point.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: CKN


That's because in snow and ice ABS isn't going to help you.


And that's hard to swallow. A so-called safety device needs to make things safer 100% of the time. To compromise in one area to enhance another is a moral quandary.

I do appreciate ABS systems that let you lock up at parking lot speeds, where you'd presumably be in control in technical driving. Wish it didn't take a decade of beta-testing to get to this point.


Ridiculous statement of the day. People driving in snow, rain, and ice without slowing down (see it all the time) is thinning the gene pool when they ultimately have an accident, if they are not smart enough to figure it out-so be it.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: ndfergy
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
ABS good on the road, bad off ... On the street, it'll save your behind more often than not. But off road, it'll get you in big trouble quick. Mud, snow, rocky ledges and drop off's will all cause huge headaches.

For many years (decades) I did trail condition assessments for Calif State Parks. I have 10's of thousands of miles of 4x4 off road under my belt. Have seen plenty of folks T bone a tree, because they could not stop, the ABS would not let them ... Sometimes you just have to slide down a rock fall or a mud chute with all four wheels locked, briefly unlocked, then locked again - ABS will not let you.

Crawling off a rock ledge with 1 or 2 wheels floating (alternately), the ABS will not let you slow enough and you can get badly hurt and tear up a vehicle when it goes sideways into a boulder or rolls ...

State would not let us put a switch on ABS (

), so we just pulled the fuse as soon as we had to put it in 4x4 ... Put the fuse back in when we hit the pavement. No workers comp payout on mod'd trucks ...

In a POV, I'd install a switch and turn ABS off (and have a yellow warning light) when off-road. Turn it back on when I hit the pavement

I agree with being good for dry and wet with snow being a [censored]. My main concern is in an emergency situation where I want to lock up my brakes to maintain direction, not fly off where my front wheels want to take me.


I'm not sure that makes any sense. Abs lets you maintain steering. You can't really steer a locked wheel. That's one of the advantages of ABS, you can still steer even when it's engaged because now you have static friction instead of kinetic friction. It takes longer to stop when kinetic friction is involved.

 

[ndfergy]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: CKN


That's because in snow and ice ABS isn't going to help you.


And that's hard to swallow. A so-called safety device needs to make things safer 100% of the time. To compromise in one area to enhance another is a moral quandary.

I do appreciate ABS systems that let you lock up at parking lot speeds, where you'd presumably be in control in technical driving. Wish it didn't take a decade of beta-testing to get to this point.


Ridiculous statement of the day. People driving in snow, rain, and ice without slowing down (see it all the time) is thinning the gene pool when they ultimately have an accident, if they are not smart enough to figure it out-so be it.


Basically what I'm getting at is if you find yourself in an unrecoverable situation on a snowy road I'd like the option of locking all fours to stop as quickly as possible with as little deviation from the direction of momentum.

 

[ndfergy]

Sorry CKN, my reply above was to Wolf359 not you.

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: ndfergy
Basically what I'm getting at is if you find yourself in an unrecoverable situation on a snowy road I'd like the option of locking all fours to stop as quickly as possible with as little deviation from the direction of momentum.


Not sure that I really follow you. An object in motion stays in motion. If the wheels are locked, you have no control over the direction of momentum. If they're unlocked you can control the steering. Snow is one of those special cases as the snow buildup acts like a plow to slow you down. Otherwise the coefficient of static friction is greater than kinetic friction.

 

[Bamaro]

Current ABS systems will work better than no ABS 98% of the time, at least. If you didn't get stopped in time with ABS, you sure wouldn't have without it.