I purchased cases of Mobil 1 and since Mobil has come out with so many different kinds of applications for their oil, I called Mobil 1 Ask hot line and asked it Mobil 1 High Mileage is Group IV P.A.O. and was told he couldn't answer that. When I called QuakerState oil company, they responded immediately that it was Group III. Nothing to hide. What's with Mobil? It's called product information but, won't tell what it is. I'm wondering if they are starting to use Group III in some of their oils. Moisture doesn't seem to effect P.A.O. as does petroleum oil. It's important to be because of use application. Appreciate any help.
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The FAQ on the Mobil 1 website states that Mobil 1 oils have PAO base stock, but they dodge the 100% question. The general consensus is that Mobil 1 has between 30-70% Group IV or higher base stock (depending partly on which M1 oil you are talking about). There is plenty of evidence to support this, such as the shortages of M1 during the ExxonMobil PAO plant shutdown after Hurricane Ike (you can goggle the news stories), and the Japan MSDS which must disclose the Group III or lower content (mineral oil).
None of the other major competitors (Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, QS, etc) have more than a few percent Group IV or higher and some may not have any.
Some boutique oils like Amsoil, Redline, etc, probably have more than Mobil 1 and possibly 100% Group IV or higher, but all of this is proprietary information, so it is hard to know for sure.
None of the other major competitors (Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, QS, etc) have more than a few percent Group IV or higher and some may not have any.
Some boutique oils like Amsoil, Redline, etc, probably have more than Mobil 1 and possibly 100% Group IV or higher, but all of this is proprietary information, so it is hard to know for sure.
Not sure why people think they are entitled to a company's IP. Mobil sells oil, not formulations.
If the formulation is that critical and will determine failure or success, best stick to a company that targets that application.
If the formulation is that critical and will determine failure or success, best stick to a company that targets that application.
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Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Not sure why people think they are entitled to a company's IP. Mobil sells oil, not formulations.
I agree if you are talking about exact formulations, but Mobil themselves complained bitterly to industry trade groups and the FTC when Castrol called their Group III formulation a synthetic.
Mobil has pretty much admitted on the FAQ that M1 contains PAO, but not 100%. I can understand why they don't list specific percentages because the formulas likely vary over time, and definitely vary from one M1 type/grade to another (at least if the Japan MSDS which lists percent of mineral oil is any indication).
Even though many people believe that some Amsoil and Redline oils contain higher PAO content than M1, I am not sure any of them explicity claim that they are 100% Group IV or above (but I could be wrong about that).
Not sure why people think they are entitled to a company's IP. Mobil sells oil, not formulations.
I agree if you are talking about exact formulations, but Mobil themselves complained bitterly to industry trade groups and the FTC when Castrol called their Group III formulation a synthetic.
Mobil has pretty much admitted on the FAQ that M1 contains PAO, but not 100%. I can understand why they don't list specific percentages because the formulas likely vary over time, and definitely vary from one M1 type/grade to another (at least if the Japan MSDS which lists percent of mineral oil is any indication).
Even though many people believe that some Amsoil and Redline oils contain higher PAO content than M1, I am not sure any of them explicity claim that they are 100% Group IV or above (but I could be wrong about that).
Listing exact percentages of Group IV/V base stock is out of the question. There are at least 15 different M1 formulations sold in the US alone from what I can tell, and I am sure they vary somewhat in PAO content.
If they disclosed the exact PAO percentage, then the first time that Mobil lowered the PAO percentage by even 1% in any of the oils, all [censored] would break loose--it would be like when Coke tried to change their formula.
If they disclosed the exact PAO percentage, then the first time that Mobil lowered the PAO percentage by even 1% in any of the oils, all [censored] would break loose--it would be like when Coke tried to change their formula.
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but I'm not sure what difference it really makes.
To me, it doesn't. Even if Group III basestocks cost 1/10 of PAO, i'm not sure why people feel they are getting a better "value" by buying a PAO product; perhaps they don't want to allow a company to make a larger profit by making a Group III product and charging PAO prices.... as if the R&D in creating a high performing GIII formulation just got mailed to them....
but I'm not sure what difference it really makes.
To me, it doesn't. Even if Group III basestocks cost 1/10 of PAO, i'm not sure why people feel they are getting a better "value" by buying a PAO product; perhaps they don't want to allow a company to make a larger profit by making a Group III product and charging PAO prices.... as if the R&D in creating a high performing GIII formulation just got mailed to them....
Right.
Cost is a big reason too. If you can maintain/exceed where you need to be using less expensive components, why not? That is what Shell has been doing. Base oils have also improved a lot with many Grp III's being as good or better than some PAO's.
Cost is a big reason too. If you can maintain/exceed where you need to be using less expensive components, why not? That is what Shell has been doing. Base oils have also improved a lot with many Grp III's being as good or better than some PAO's.
Originally Posted By: hiroshi
I purchased cases of Mobil 1 and since Mobil has come out with so many different kinds of applications for their oil, I called Mobil 1 Ask hot line and asked it Mobil 1 High Mileage is Group IV P.A.O. and was told he couldn't answer that. When I called QuakerState oil company, they responded immediately that it was Group III. Nothing to hide. What's with Mobil? It's called product information but, won't tell what it is. I'm wondering if they are starting to use Group III in some of their oils. Moisture doesn't seem to effect P.A.O. as does petroleum oil. It's important to be because of use application. Appreciate any help.
Rest assure M1 has some top quality oil's out there,use with confidence that your protected well,do some searches on here and read..
I purchased cases of Mobil 1 and since Mobil has come out with so many different kinds of applications for their oil, I called Mobil 1 Ask hot line and asked it Mobil 1 High Mileage is Group IV P.A.O. and was told he couldn't answer that. When I called QuakerState oil company, they responded immediately that it was Group III. Nothing to hide. What's with Mobil? It's called product information but, won't tell what it is. I'm wondering if they are starting to use Group III in some of their oils. Moisture doesn't seem to effect P.A.O. as does petroleum oil. It's important to be because of use application. Appreciate any help.
Rest assure M1 has some top quality oil's out there,use with confidence that your protected well,do some searches on here and read..
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Please do a search... This is discussed about once every other day.
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