A warning on why it's "bad" to change from dino to synthetic...

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3,593
Location
Outside smalltown, IL
As seen on another board. Enjoy - If an engine or any other steel component for that matter, has been assembled with or previously been in contact with a mineral oil then you cannot switch to a synthetic or semi-synthetic oil anyway and vice versa synthetic and mineral bases do not mix and produce carbon particles in the oil that act like a lapping paste and damage the bearing surfaces of the crank and camshaft it is possible to change the lubrication type IF it is completely removed at a chemical level. Just wiping it off is not sufficient because steel is porous and absorbs the lubricant at granular level. A chemical degreaser can be used but then the degreaser needs to be removed by heating before the new lubricant is applied or else it will be 'degreased' too it is nigh on impossible to do this to an engine unless it is stripped to bare components and each surface is degreased the biggest problem is heating up a hardened surface, like a big end journal, as it will start to temper and no longer be a 'journal' so the upshot of all that is, if your engine has synthetic oil fitted as factory spec, then stick to that. If you drive old **** that has mineral oil as it's spec, then stick to that DO NEVER MIX because it won't improve the wear capabilities of your engine it will make it worse and further explained as - i don't doubt that many people have done it and 'got away with it' but strictly speaking it is not possible and they will have experienced accelerated wear but not attributed it to the oil base type synthetic and mineral dissimilar base reaction is even more pronouced if anti-fretting agents like copper are also in the lubricant - that really does react if 'mixed' (Tribologist mode) if a steel component has a mineral lubricant applied then it effectively forms a barrier coating on the surface, when a synthetic base lubricant comes into contact with it then it cannot adhere (and protect) the steel surface as the mineral lubricant is blocking it. The synthetic lubricant is then not the lubricant anyway but just the thin coating of mineral is doing all the work and vice versa therefore if you have an engine with mineral base oil in it and you drain it off and put synthetic base oil in instead, the synthetic is doing absolutely nothing to lubricate the components and is merely sloshing around - it is the thin coating of mineral that is left that is the lubricant - this cannot last long the reaction behind dissimilar bases causes carbon (fossilised) particles in the mineral oil to migrate out of it and they cannot mix with/dissolve into the synthetic base oil. They are suspended in the synthetic base and the oil becomes effectively a 'lapping paste' Comments welcome... [Big Grin]
 
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421
Location
LUBBOCK, TX
I don't believe a word of it. I personally have used synthetic oil in every vehicle I've owned in the last ten years. I know of one Chevy Pickup with over 300.000 miles on a 350 c.i. engine that came with dino oil and was broken in with dino oil and then switched over to Mobil 1 for the rest of its life. this truck has been used as a pickup is intended to be used. Where do stories like this come from? Westex
 
I have two different thoughts after reading this. 1. I switched my current vehicle to a grp IV synth at about 100k miles. I then drained it and did a UOA a about 108k miles. The results were much better that I would expect from a "lapping paste" 2. Scheaffers and a few others had better change their formulas and re-lable their synth blends as "lapping paste". Once people find out that "lapping paste" will protect as good as these synth blends, there may be problems.
 
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9,448
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USA
It is hard to know where to start with this post!!You would be better off leavingit alone and just shakeing your head. It is all wrong!! Every last word is completely wrong! I hope this guy isnot a tech.!!!! I especialy love this portion
quote:
the biggest problem is heating up a hardened surface, like a big end journal, as it will start to temper and no longer be a 'journal'
This is a real gem as well
quote:
the reaction behind dissimilar bases causes carbon (fossilised) particles in the mineral oil to migrate out of it and they cannot mix with/dissolve into the synthetic base oil. They are suspended in the synthetic base and the oil becomes effectively a 'lapping paste'
Darwin Award Canidate!!!!! Some one should PM this to Molakule and Terry!!! I think their hearts will skip a beat!!
 
Messages
2,233
Location
Wisconsin
quote:
synthetic and mineral bases do not mix and produce carbon particles in the oil that act like a lapping paste and damage the bearing surfaces of the crank and camshaft
Yeah, right. How does this little gem of logic apply to a true synthetic blend like the Grp III/PAO Mobil Clean 7500? A pretty sophisticated line of BS, but the odor is still there, none the less!
 

jsharp

Thread starter
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3,593
Location
Outside smalltown, IL
I probably should have left it alone but I just couldn't. [Big Grin] I *had* to ask how it was possible to formulate a synthetic blend, or how using a mineral based additive carrier oil in a synthetic lubricant could possibly work given the "reaction" he mentioned. I never did get an answer... [LOL!]
 
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1,130
Location
California
Somewhere a village idiot got access to the 'net [Frown] . I suppose this means that ExxonMobil, ConnocoPhillips and others who are now sneaking some synthetic basestocks into their conventional oils are really out to kill engines .... [Mad] John
 
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39,805
Location
Pottstown, PA
quote:
I probably should have left it alone but I just couldn't.
Oh ...JS ..you can't just leave us with this little taste of this individual's wisdom. Let us drink from the fountain of knowledge that he has to offer. Someone who can post with such conviction and authority needs to be paid close attention to. Lead us to him so we can know him... [Big Grin] You've been holding out on us.... [No no]
 
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1,680
Location
CT
he's my hero [HAIL 2 U!] maybe I can sue mobil, QS, Valvoline, Pennzoil, for their synthetic blends [Eek!] geez, there's a lot of syn blends on the shelf these days, I'm gonna be rich [Happy]
 
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4,872
Location
MN
This is my favorite part:
quote:
i don't doubt that many people have done it and 'got away with it' but strictly speaking it is not possible and they will have experienced accelerated wear but not attributed it to the oil base type
So he thinks that it can happen but is not possible. Can we please have a link? [Big Grin]
 

jsharp

Thread starter
Messages
3,593
Location
Outside smalltown, IL
Ok, I had a couple of people ask... If anyone wants to know where I saw this "gem," PM me. If you don't like four letter words or people trolling constantly though don't bother... [Wink]
 
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47,786
Location
Everson WA - Pacific NW USA
YES - Terry does have a sense of humor!! I think hogwash would come to mind.....but the false beliefs keep getting propped up. People REALLY believe this stuff! sad really - ah the Internet.......
 
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11,284
Location
Spring HIll
quote:
synthetic and mineral dissimilar base reaction is even more pronouced if anti-fretting agents ...
Does this guy have a minor in Metallurgy and a major in Sensivity Training?
 
Messages
2,513
Location
Richmond, VA
quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: It is hard to know where to start with this post!!You would be better off leavingit alone and just shakeing your head. It is all wrong!! Every last word is completely wrong! I hope this guy isnot a tech.!!!! I especialy love this portion
quote:
the biggest problem is heating up a hardened surface, like a big end journal, as it will start to temper and no longer be a 'journal'
This is a real gem as well
quote:
the reaction behind dissimilar bases causes carbon (fossilised) particles in the mineral oil to migrate out of it and they cannot mix with/dissolve into the synthetic base oil. They are suspended in the synthetic base and the oil becomes effectively a 'lapping paste'
Darwin Award Canidate!!!!! Some one should PM this to Molakule and Terry!!! I think their hearts will skip a beat!!

I'm assuming that his theory is if you mix synth and dino oil you will spin a bearing? All oil mfgs. say you can mix dino and synth oil so I guess this numbnuts knows something they don't. [Cheers!] [crushedcar]
 
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