A Thought On Gasoline Prices - Rats...Maybe They Sorta Make Sense

JHZR2

Staff member
Messages
46,119
Location
New Jersey
That all doesnt mean that the cost of a barrel of crude isnt being manipulated to the point that it is costing more than the amount of risk or uncertainty that its price reflects. When that happens, tax collectors and companies make out - private citizens do not... thats what we have here. JMH
 
Messages
39,805
Location
Pottstown, PA
My state doesn't get any more fuel taxes ..but Groucho is correct. As the toll is levied on other goods the other % taxes get a boost for no darn good reason. Sure JHXR2 - they purchased that oil under contract ..the speculative price jumped in the interum ..massive windfall profits. I imagine it was a one time gouge though. Any oil producing nation would be foolish to lock themselves into a fixed price in today's market.
 
Messages
376
Location
Athens, Georgia
I do love a discussion of this sort, though I can see it getting locked before too long. Let's hope everyone remains nice. My 2 cents: Prices here, as high as they are, are still only half the price typical in Europe. (Not sure about other places.) I wonder why. How would one make an appropriate comparison, taking into account the various variables in the two places? Second, I know people who would love to see gas prices here top $10/gallon, just to force us all into more efficient modes of transportation, perhaps even to the point of relinquishing cars altogether in the long run. I can see their point in a wierd way, but I do hope they are wrong. My question: With prices as they are now, what if another bad hurricane hits? How high could the price go? I'm not sure I want to see the answer.
 
Messages
2,513
Location
Richmond, VA
^^^ Problem there is Europe has mass transit and free healthcare out of the deal, where our high prices just go to greedy fat hogs who run the oil companies. If gas got that high we would all be in big trouble. As a truck driver I can assure you we are already suffering enough.
 

ALS

Messages
1,862
Location
Pittsburgh
quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus: ^^^ Problem there is Europe has mass transit and free healthcare out of the deal, where our high prices just go to greedy fat hogs who run the oil companies. If gas got that high we would all be in big trouble. As a truck driver I can assure you we are already suffering enough.
Well lets see Exxon gets a 9% profit on gasoline. So on a $3 a gallon of gasoline they make .27 cents, yet the Government is getting 49.5 cents on a gallon of gas here in Pa. So who is ripping who off. Last time I looked the Government was not the one that was searching, drilling, building pipe lines and oil platforms, refineries or trucking the gasoline to the stations so I can buy it. Of course we could have the European out look on gasoline taxes and you could be paying $7 a gallon for diesel for your truck. Then where would you be financially?
 
Messages
1,779
Location
Central Iowa
quote:
Originally posted by cousincletus: ^^^ Problem there is Europe has mass transit and free healthcare out of the deal, where our high prices just go to greedy fat hogs who run the oil companies. If gas got that high we would all be in big trouble. As a truck driver I can assure you we are already suffering enough.
Those "greedy fat hogs" are people like you and I that have money invested in the stock market and 401K retirement plans. It funny to hear people talk like this, but if their retirement goes south because the companies aren't making a profit they are still upset. You can't have it both ways....
 
Messages
39,805
Location
Pottstown, PA
Well, then my XOM shares should have me overjoyed that everything else I purchase has gone up too, right? You're assuming that the mass investment in 401k and IRAs was going to offset any of the inherent effects of an aging population that's all heading for retirement. Funny thing happens when everyone is investing to be "comfortable" with 401k investments...they still get to carry those who don't ..and even if they didn't ..it wouldn't matter. If everyone was a millionaire ..everything would cost a million. There is no "assured" escape ..even with planning ahead.
 

ALS

Messages
1,862
Location
Pittsburgh
quote:
Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX: Bill Gates should solve this problem.
Hey no one has a problem with the 30% profit on gross sales that Microsoft makes. [LOL!]
 
Messages
2,338
Location
Charlotte Metro area
How about this scenario. Gas gets so high, people actually stop buying Hemi-this and Hemi-that and V10's and even V8's if they don't REALLY need the power. Fuel consumption goes down significantly across the land. Governments don't collect as much revenue, so, they raise the per gallon tax...price stays relatively artificially high. This continues to get people to seek better fuel economy...before long, V-6's are the big engines. I guess looking at what "they" do across the pond where fuel is really expensive compared to in the USA to see what we might look like in 10 years.
 
Messages
1,779
Location
Central Iowa
quote:
Originally posted by Titan: How about this scenario. Gas gets so high, people actually stop buying Hemi-this and Hemi-that and V10's and even V8's if they don't REALLY need the power. Fuel consumption goes down significantly across the land. Governments don't collect as much revenue, so, they raise the per gallon tax...price stays relatively artificially high. This continues to get people to seek better fuel economy...before long, V-6's are the big engines. I guess looking at what "they" do across the pond where fuel is really expensive compared to in the USA to see what we might look like in 10 years.
How about one better? Gas prices get high enough that we invest some real research into alternative sources of energy. By 2015 we've cut our crude oil use in half. By 2025 we have cut our crude oil use by 85%. If we would have learned our lesson in the 1970's we wouldn't be having this discussion in 2006.
 
Messages
1,779
Location
Central Iowa
quote:
There is no "assured" escape ..even with planning ahead.
Correct. There is no guarantee that you'll be handed everything on a silver platter when you retire-unless you work for GM. That still doesn't warrant sitting around on your laurels and not trying to plan for the future.
 
Messages
1,151
Location
Clovis, CA
Nancy wrote: Better yet, we could just import the technology from Brazil & start making alternative fuel cars & the cooking oil/grass fuels that feed them. Won't happen, of course: too many of the Ruling Class in this administration & their corporate buddies are too heavily invested in Big Oil, so Americans will be made to continue to subsidize the oil industry even as Fearless Leader prates about being addicted to oil. I mean, get real: Brazil has the means to produce alternative fuel & cars to use it, but WE don't?! Crap. I agree with what the dame up above says. [Wink]
 
Messages
2,338
Location
Charlotte Metro area
michael80 wrote: If we would have learned our lesson in the 1970's we wouldn't be having this discussion in 2006. Obviously, that didn't happen. Too little foresight. It's a shame that people don't study history enough to learn from it. It astounds me that otherwise intelligent people I know seem blindsided by higher fuel prices, and don't know what they are going to do with their current gas-guzzler. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
 
Messages
36,461
Location
ME
I posted this there, gonna repeat it here.. If someone thinks that exxon can make a barrell of oil for $22 and they should sell that for $25, it will never reach them at the corner gas station. Some middleman will snatch that barrell up and sell it at current spot pricing. The best analogy I can think of is Red Sox tickets. You can't usually buy them at the box office. Season ticket holders get them and are analagous to fuel companies sitting on existing, producing well leases. They are apparantly allowed to "scalp" product at current market rates, despite getting their hands on that product at a lower fixed price. People that wonder why more refineries aren't built shouldn't blame environmentalists. With the financial stakes plenty of 3rd world countries would allow foreign investement in a refinery with no annoying enviro laws in the way. Possibly a consistent return on investment hasn't yet been guaranteed?
 
Messages
1,137
Location
Florida
quote:
Originally posted by Titan: michael80 wrote: If we would have learned our lesson in the 1970's we wouldn't be having this discussion in 2006. Obviously, that didn't happen. Too little foresight. It's a shame that people don't study history enough to learn from it. It astounds me that otherwise intelligent people I know seem blindsided by higher fuel prices, and don't know what they are going to do with their current gas-guzzler. It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
"History teaches us that man learns nothing from history." -Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel Sad but very true!
 
Messages
1,381
Location
Southeast Kentucky
Until we as a country decide that fuel economy is more important than driving a big vehicle, we will always have (and deserve) high gas prices. Its called economics.
 
Top