A Silver Lining Under Ford's Dark Cloud Of Transmission Failures

[macarose]

Get ready for cheap Fords and a better extended warranty for their dual clutch transmissions.

http://www.dashboard-light.com/why-fords-worst-cars-may-become-americas-best-deal/

 

[KGMtech]

That's being pretty optimistic. I would think there would be someone engineering a fix for these shoddy dual clutch disasters.

 

[ecotourist]

From what I've heard, those small Ford's dual clutch transmissions are very unreliable, and seemingly unrepairable. Not a good combination. So they're all cheap as used cars. The opportunity is to buy the manual, which is also cheap but doesn't suffer from that transmission problem.

But then you'd have to keep it forever because no-one wants it.

 

[PimTac]

The ceasing of sales of these cars takes care of the problem.

 

[dnewton3]

The DCTs in those cars suck, period. I never liked them and I'm glad I passed on one for my daughter.
But if you ever get a chance to zip around in one with a rare manual equipped unit, they are quite spirited (in a relative sense) and fun to drive.

 

[HangFire]

After the 6.0, the Triton 3V et al I am not holding my breath that Ford will ever do the right thing. At best there might be a class action settlement where lawyers make millions and owners (who qualify) get a check for $11.17, 3 years later.

 

[littlehulkster]

Take: The double clutch is the worst of both worlds and is pretty much entirely pointless outside of race cars.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted by dnewton3
The DCTs in those cars suck, period. I never liked them and I'm glad I passed on one for my daughter.
But if you ever get a chance to zip around in one with a rare manual equipped unit, they are quite spirited (in a relative sense) and fun to drive.


That was what killed me about the whole Focus debacle. They were really good cars if they had a real automatic. If I ever needed a small car, I would have considered one if I could have had a higher trim level manual.

 

[double vanos]

Another potential ticking time bomb: CVTs
They're getting better but still.

 

[14Accent]

Originally Posted by double vanos
Another potential ticking time bomb: CVTs
They're getting better but still.


Really? Considering the amount of CVT's out there, the failure rate has been quite low. Have there been problem units? Of course. The Saturn VT25E springs to mind instantly.

For the most part, CVT's are pretty much bulletproof.

 

[joegreen]

If you press the brake and floor the gas in drive on either the fiesta or focus the car revs up to 3k rpm and holds it there but the computer doesn't let the clutch engage. If you keep your foot floored and quickly release the brake it dumps the clutch at 3k rpm and spins the tires pretty good.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by double vanos
Another potential ticking time bomb: CVTs
They're getting better but still.


CVTs are fine if well designed, the issue is that people complained about the feel of them so manufacturers programmed in artificial stutters to make it feel like it had gears.

Toyota CVTs are fantastically reliable and well proven in loads of different applications and there have been loads of them in industrial and heavy duty applications that have held up fine. They actually work very well for a lot of agricultural machinery. The CVT can work, but it needs to be treated as a CVT instead of an automatic.

 

[maxdustington]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
The CVT can work, but it needs to be treated as a CVT instead of an automatic.
So it works if you baby it?

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
The CVT can work, but it needs to be treated as a CVT instead of an automatic.
So it works if you baby it?


Quite the contrary, it handles heavy industrial applications pretty well. You just need to understand that a CVT is not a torque converter automatic and will never feel like one.

 

[wag123]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
The CVT can work, but it needs to be treated as a CVT instead of an automatic.
So it works if you baby it?
Quite the contrary, it handles heavy industrial applications pretty well. You just need to understand that a CVT is not a torque converter automatic and will never feel like one.
As far as I know (except for some Hybrids which use a CVT of an entirely different design) all CVT automatic equipped vehicles have a torque converter.

 

[zzyzzx]

Supposedly the manual transmission Focus used is worth more than one with an automatic.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Take: The double clutch is the worst of both worlds and is pretty much entirely pointless outside of race cars.




Disagree with you here - yes maybe the Ford version.

The VWAG DSG has a very proven track record dating back to ~2005 in North America (maybe earlier) with no major notable issues and is a very driveable autobox. Shifts are much smoother than any traditional auto I have driven but up and down. Has a few driving quirks due to its nature of being an automated manual but you just adapt to them just like you would with going from a traditional automatic to a CVT.

The VWAG units clutches are wet vs the dry in the Ford setup, don't know if that makes any difference or if the Ford boxes are just junk.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted by pezzy669
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Take: The double clutch is the worst of both worlds and is pretty much entirely pointless outside of race cars.




Disagree with you here - yes maybe the Ford version.

The VWAG DSG has a very proven track record dating back to ~2005 in North America (maybe earlier) with no major notable issues and is a very driveable autobox. Shifts are much smoother than any traditional auto I have driven but up and down. Has a few driving quirks due to its nature of being an automated manual but you just adapt to them just like you would with going from a traditional automatic to a CVT.

The VWAG units clutches are wet vs the dry in the Ford setup, don't know if that makes any difference or if the Ford boxes are just junk.



Agree, VWAG produces a nice DSG. They are the smoothest shifting "automatics" I have ever driven.

 

[littlehulkster]

Originally Posted by wag123
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
The CVT can work, but it needs to be treated as a CVT instead of an automatic.
So it works if you baby it?
Quite the contrary, it handles heavy industrial applications pretty well. You just need to understand that a CVT is not a torque converter automatic and will never feel like one.
As far as I know (except for some Hybrids which use a CVT of an entirely different design) all CVT automatic equipped vehicles have a torque converter.


No, Nissan, Chrysler, Ford and GM use torque converter CVTs. Coincidentally, all their CVTs are garbage. There might be some others, but I know VAG, BMW, Honda and (some) Toyotas don't.

Regardless, the terminology is still probably incorrect, yeah. Hydraulic automatic? Conventional automatic? One of those is probably better. That said, CVTs can be made reliable. The Prius is a shining example of that.

 

[pezzy669]

Originally Posted by littlehulkster

Regardless, the terminology is still probably incorrect, yeah. Hydraulic automatic? Conventional automatic? One of those is probably better. That said, CVTs can be made reliable. The Prius is a shining example of that.


The Prius (and I think most Hybrid CVT) is an entirely different design from the non-hybrid CVT drivelines. It's a planetary gear set vs the metal belt drive of your run of the mill metal belt CVT's.