A reply from Pennzoil about new PUP

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108
Location
Western Wisconsin
So I finally found someone at Pennzoil who helped and replied to my questions. I first emailed Mark Ferner after seeing him in some Pennzoil Ultra commercials and he replied he moved onto Shell R&D and now heads up a group largely based in Europe that does much of the internal engine, transmission and component testing for Shell scientists on chassis dynos, engine dynos and in several field trials and he didn't know the details of the most recent motor oil to answer the questions but he still kept in touch with the Pennzoil team members that answered the Q&A from bobistheoilguy and he would forward them my questions. So yesterday I get an email back from Chris Tamburino who is labeled Coyne Public Relations when I googled him and this is his email: Hi Skip – First of all, nice job tracking the team down for your inquiries! Second, we appreciate your patience as it took a couple of days to get back to you. Answers to each of your questions can be found below. We hope this helps provide a deeper understanding of the advanced line of Pennzoil Platinum® Full-Synthetic motor oils with PurePlus™ Technology. Hope you have a great weekend and see you on BITOG! Best, Chris Q1: If GTL based Pennzoil Platinum Ultra PurePlus (PUP) is much better than the old formulation of Pennzoil Ultra (PU), why do the spec sheets look much worse like NOACK (goes from 6.4 to 11.5)? A1: NOACK is only one element of a motor oil’s design criteria. The performance of Pennzoil Platinum® with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus™ Technology both exceed the general industry requirement of 15% NOACK, as per API SN, for example. Pennzoil Platinum® and Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus™ Technology were developed to provide complete protection (Cleanest Pistons, Better Fuel Economy, Horsepower Protection, Unsurpassed Wear Protection, and Excellent Performance in Extreme Temperatures) for your engine, while remaining within and exceeding the general industry requirements. It is also worth noting that NOACK varies with SAE grade due to the different formulation shapes required to frame the different viscometric properties of each grade, for example changes in the balance of base oil and viscosity modifier used (ie. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum with PurePlus Technology 10W-30 quotes a NOACK of 5.7 on the current TDS). Q2: If PUP is supposed to be better than Platinum PurePlus (PPP), why is PPP's NOACK (8.6) lower than PUP's (11.5)? A2: As mentioned above, NOACK is not the sole determinant of motor oil performance. The difference between Pennzoil Platinum® with PurePlus™ Technology and Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus™ Technology lies in the extra performance additives in Pennzoil Ultra Platinum to offer a higher level of clean performance and lower friction to benefit fuel economy. For example, testing Pennzoil Platinum® with PurePlus™ Technology kept pistons 40% cleaner than the toughest industry standards. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus™ Technology takes that same improvement up to 65% cleaner. The difference in formulation changes the blend “shape” which has an impact on NOACK. Q3: Advertising states that the old formulation of PU already kept pistons up to 65% cleaner than the toughest industry standard, yet PUP is stating the same thing. Isn't PUP supposed to be more advanced than the old PU? Significantly increased NOACK, marginally worse CCS and MRV, same sequence IIIG claims. A3: Keeping your pistons 65% cleaner than the toughest industry standard is one of the best claims in the industry, so naturally we wanted to keep delivering that level of performance. There are many benefits derived from converting pure natural gas into the first-of-its-kind synthetic base oil used in the Pennzoil Platinum® line of full synthetic motor oils. As compared to traditional group II and group III base oils, PurePlus™ Technology not only provides 65% cleaner pistons, but also excellent low temperature pumpability and enhanced viscosity, friction and volatility performance. The combination of these consumer benefits allows for Complete Protection. Now with PurePlus™ Technology, Pennzoil Platinum premium motor oils keep pistons cleaner than any other leading synthetic, delivers better fuel economy, protects against horsepower loss, provides unsurpassed wear protection and delivers excellent performance in extreme temperatures. Thereby, this makes Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ with PurePlus™ Technology our most advanced motor oil ever. Q4: Is PU's formula different than PUP? Or are they the same oil just rebranded bottle? A4: Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology is formulated differently than our original Pennzoil Ultra™ formulation. The new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ represents the use of 100% PurePlus™ Base Oil in the formulation.
 
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5,445
Location
MTL, CANADA
I dont see how that answered the questions. Pretty general replies..i realize there are other things to take into account besides NOACK..but they dont seem to confirm what formulation change results in a higher NOACK. Is it their natural gas formulation? My major disappointment is that PUP, seems to not be available anywhere. I checked autozone, walmart, kmart, advanced auto..seems like nobody carries it. I see the new PP..but no PUP.
 
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2,298
Location
Michigan
I'm betting that all of you guys that have your panties wadded up over Noack values have no idea why your panties are wadded up over the Noack values.
 
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19,528
Location
Lake Forest, CA
Q&A #2 is totally marketing. If PUP is better than PPP then NOACK should be lower, not higher. NOACK is very importance for high rev engines, it's one of the reasons Honda recommends conventional 10W30 in S2000.
 
Messages
27
Location
Texas
Skip, thank you for taking the time to run the Pennzoil people down and ask a few questions. Now to go un wad my panties.
 
Messages
2,024
Location
USA
Originally Posted By: skip029
Q4: Is PU's formula different than PUP? Or are they the same oil just rebranded bottle? A4: Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology is formulated differently than our original Pennzoil Ultra™ formulation. The new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ represents the use of 100% PurePlus™ Base Oil in the formulation.
Since PUP now "represents the use of 100% PurePlus™ Base Oil in the[ir] formulation", does this mean that the old Ultra used less than 100% GTL?
 

RGR

Messages
224
Location
Denver
Originally Posted By: skip029
The new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ represents the use of 100% PurePlus™ Base Oil in the formulation.
which involves a cruddy Noack......which doesn't matter all that much...except to people who might think that low Noacks involve better base oils....not saying they are wrong mind you....just that our marketeers want you to know the new stuff is always better....even if the empirical evidence might indicate otherwise..... ???
 

RGR

Messages
224
Location
Denver
Originally Posted By: 147_Grain
Originally Posted By: skip029
Q4: Is PU's formula different than PUP? Or are they the same oil just rebranded bottle? A4: Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ motor oil with PurePlus™ Technology is formulated differently than our original Pennzoil Ultra™ formulation. The new Pennzoil Ultra Platinum™ represents the use of 100% PurePlus™ Base Oil in the formulation.
Since PUP now "represents the use of 100% PurePlus™ Base Oil in the[ir] formulation", does this mean that the old Ultra used less than 100% GTL?
Maybe. Or the addition of GTL destroys Noack rather than helps it....which...doesn't...appear....to agree with what some Garak charts have indicated?
 
Messages
105
Location
Massachusetts
Originally Posted By: RGR
... some Garak charts have indicated?
I think I missed these charts. Can someone link me to the thread? thanks (I'm not being totally lazy here, I'm poking around but with no luck!)
 
Messages
191
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
How about info about where PUPPP can be found? A lot of the walmart i go to in bellingham/burlington washington area only stock up PPPP.. it seems like the Pennzoil Ultra PurePlus is so hard to find..
 
Messages
3,117
Location
Virginia
Thanks for posting this Skip. Mostly corporate answers but at least SOPUS responds. Looks like 10W-30 isn't dead yet if NOACK is your thing and you're fighting high temp burn off.
 
Messages
831
Location
Colorado
Originally Posted By: mauric3
How about info about where PUPPP can be found? A lot of the walmart i go to in bellingham/burlington washington area only stock up PPPP.. it seems like the Pennzoil Ultra PurePlus is so hard to find..
Order it through walmart.com online, free shipping if you get two jugs (I did). ... Wait, editing this, ..... I just checked and walmart.com doesn't sell Ultra online anymore. My bad. Seems Amazon.com is always overpriced I think. Maybe talk to a Walmart manager and ask to get a few in the local walmart store...
 
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Messages
831
Location
Colorado
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I saw PUP in my local WalMart a few weeks ago, so it is out there.
Seems few Walmarts actually stock it, but maybe they can order a few (?) ...if you bribe them with beer... just sayin', nobody can resist beer...
 
Messages
42
Location
MN
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I'm betting that all of you guys that have your panties wadded up over Noack values have no idea why your panties are wadded up over the Noack values.
LOL. In approx a month I'll be getting an UOA on the PPP I have in my car now. My panties are wet just thinking about it.
 
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2,410
Location
SD
Originally Posted By: grantsburg
In approx a month I'll be getting an UOA on the PPP I have in my car now. My panties are wet just thinking about it.
LOL
 
Messages
680
Location
Iowa
I suspect that noack is never/rarely a "design point" when formulating a retail mass market product. I would imagine that they experiment with base oils, viscosity modifiers, additive packs, etc. and then test the final product for specification compliance. Do we have a reasonable belief that, all other things being equal, a lower noack is better? Of course. The problem is, that all other things are rarely/never equal. Do we know that the lower noack of the older products makes them protect our engines better? I would posit that we do not. Is it possible that SOPUS has simply determined that the GTL base stocks will allow them to market a high end consumer based product more profitably? Absolutely. But I don't think we have anywhere near the knowledge base (yet) to determine if the GTL based product is less robust than the old product. The new products exceed the most common certifications by a good margin, and are likely more capable than the vast majority of us will ever "need." Will the new products ever achieve the coveted BITOG "best" status? Will any product? I have never used PU, but have used PP when I can get it for a good price. I don't think we know much more than we did, but I appreciate Skip's efforts and Sopus' response.
 
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Messages
5,353
Location
Paramount, California
Why do you even bother asking them questions when you know you won't get an answer? Pennzoil Ultra Platinum = Pennzoil Platinum + extra detergent + extra moly We're still waiting someone to get a VOA on the Pennzoil PurePlus varieties so that we can see how much extra detergent and extra moly is in the Ultra Platinum.
 
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