A Fight Over the Right to Repair Cars Turns Ugly

This is not a new issue. When I was having trouble with the traction control, ABS and speedometer on my 2000 BMW 528i, my independent shop proposed to replace pretty much everything including a new traction control module which had to be integrated with the rest of the BMW's systems by BMW and at a significant cost. The total estimate came to about $2,000.

In the end I had the old traction control module rebuilt by Module Masters for a couple hundred dollars and replaced it myself.
 
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Never heard of him- I am googling him now.

I participate on Apple's support forums. Talk about her and a specific iPhone repair specialist in update NY can get one in hot water there as that's considered "unauthorized repair". I've gotten in trouble there for simply mentioning the Maguson-Moss Warranty Improvement Act. Rossmann and she specialize in board-level repair, which Apple and most other electronics manufacturers simply don't do. And that's probably the case for most auto electronics.

I've worked in the electronics industry for decades. Although I'm more into chip design, one of my first jobs was tangentially related to board test technology, But the board test technology is built into chips (to test all the stuff between chip pins), so it was my job to put it in. I just asked my manager what they did when a board failed. It could be due to something like a bad trace, bad package, bad solder connection, etc. I've never been handy with a soldering iron and I was wondering if they simply got fixed up. He said that basically it would get scrapped and the whole process was designed around trying to minimize the failures and not fixing them. Maybe a few samples would go in for failure analysis, but most boards these days are machine assembled. One place I worked, my company had prototype boards, and these were expensive and couldn't be repaired in house. We'd pay someone a few hundred dollars just to remove a BGA package and replace it with another one.

Any kind of official repair is really limited to assembling parts, where an entire printed circuit board is considered a single part.
 
This is not a new issue. When I was having trouble with the traction control, ABS and speedometer on my 2000 BMW 528i, my independent shop proposed to replace pretty much everything including a new traction control module which had to be integrated with the rest of the BMW's systems by BMW and at a significant cost. The total estimate came to about $2,000.

In the end I had the old traction control module rebuilt by Module Masters for a couple hundred dollars and replaced it myself.

This is more electronics repair, where every electronics manufacturer these days considers a printed circuit board (with every single chip, resistor, capacitor, light, etc. on it) to be a single part.
 
Your independent workshop can access diagnostic equipment that can programme this already as it is part of right to repair. In a lot of cases a independent can buy equipment that will program or code used modules as well which a main dealer usually cannot do it needs to be a virgin unit.

I asked an independent (Japanese car specialist) shop if they would do an ABS brake fluid change on my 1995 Integra GS-R. They told me no - as it required a proprietary Honda machine to reset it, that only dealers had and wouldn't sell to them. And I ended up getting a factory service manual, which showed a drawing of this part being used but didn't indicate a Honda part number. I only ended up getting it flushed once - at a dealer. They didn't charge me a whole lot for it (maybe $45), but at the independent shop it would have probably charged me $10 since it would have been part of a complete service.
 
I fear older, more durable and simpler vehicles are going to bring massive prices eventually. Then the middle class guy won't be able to afford a new OR old vehicle. They'll only be able to afford the worst era of vehicles ever made - like the equivalent of a 2010-2020 today. :poop:
 
Deere, in my opinion, has taken the farmer for a ride. Why don't farmers just buy a different color of machinery? Some do, but when Deere is such a large portion of the ag machinery market, you simply can't buy another brand in large quantities.

My brother, the big farmer in the family, farms with Deere (as well as New Holland). As stated, it has gotten pretty bad with Deere using priority equipment and services. So my brother got around paying Deere's high prices by cutting out the middle man, in this case Mother Deere. There is a local guy who worked as a John Deere ag technician for about 10 years. He then quit his mechanic job and now teaches at a John Deere training school. This is a school that teaches young techs how to work on John Deere and only John Deere equipment. When my brother needs proprietary work done on his JD equipment, this is the guy that comes out to fix his equipment and he fixes it with John Deere-issued equipment, if needed. As a bonus, this JD instructor also does actual planting and harvesting work for my brother driving and using genuine John Deere equipment. That way, he can instruct the student JD mechanics with actual machine experience instead of just what would ordinarily be taught from a book. It's a win-win situation for both my brother and the JD instructor. My brother gets his JD equipment fixed using genuine JD-issued equipment. The JD instructor, although not a genuine farmer by trade, gets to instruct his students from actual hands-on JD equipment experience.
BTW, this JD instructor won't touch any New Holland equipment that my brother owns. Prolly afraid somebody will snap a photo of him driving it and use it as blackmail. :LOL:
 
I asked an independent (Japanese car specialist) shop if they would do an ABS brake fluid change on my 1995 Integra GS-R. They told me no - as it required a proprietary Honda machine to reset it, that only dealers had and wouldn't sell to them. And I ended up getting a factory service manual, which showed a drawing of this part being used but didn't indicate a Honda part number. I only ended up getting it flushed once - at a dealer. They didn't charge me a whole lot for it (maybe $45), but at the independent shop it would have probably charged me $10 since it would have been part of a complete service.

I believe you're referring to Honda/Acura ALB Checker part# 07HAJ-SG0010A, It runs in the $1,000 dollar range. There are ways around using the tool to bleed the ABS by activating the Pump Motor & Solenoids manually.

Honda hasn't used the "Add-On" Sumitomo ABS unit in quite some time making buying a ALB Checker cost prohibitive even for a Honda/Japanese specialty shop. I bet not every Honda/Acura service department has one.....If it got lost/stolen or the dealer wasn't around when this system was abundant, Their not ordering one to use it once or twice a year.

I've heard Mechanics/Service Writers/Shop Owners lie to customers about tool availability just to Save Face, It's a ridiculous practice in my opinion as I'd rather be seen as a cheapskate than a liar.
 
I believe you're referring to Honda/Acura ALB Checker part# 07HAJ-SG0010A, It runs in the $1,000 dollar range. There are ways around using the tool to bleed the ABS by activating the Pump Motor & Solenoids manually.

Honda hasn't used the "Add-On" Sumitomo ABS unit in quite some time making buying a ALB Checker cost prohibitive even for a Honda/Japanese specialty shop. I bet not every Honda/Acura service department has one.....If it got lost/stolen or the dealer wasn't around when this system was abundant, Their not ordering one to use it once or twice a year.

I've heard Mechanics/Service Writers/Shop Owners lie to customers about tool availability just to Save Face, It's a ridiculous practice in my opinion as I'd rather be seen as a cheapskate than a liar.

I only had it changed once. My next car didn't have a separate ABS reservoir and didn't need any special procedure.
 
Aren't some cars starting to go that route now? Like BMW batteries that need to be coded.

I can see electric cars being easier to have to code everything in. Imagine needing software to change a light bulb or a fan motor, wiper motor etc.
BMW's require coding because of the "intelligent battery system" (IBS). The IBS uses different charge rates depending on the age or newness of the battery. There are several software tools and apps that can perform this function.
 
BMW's require coding because of the "intelligent battery system" (IBS). The IBS uses different charge rates depending on the age or newness of the battery. There are several software tools and apps that can perform this function.
Sounds like Ford's BMS which started in '11 on most of their vehicles.

It also sounds like Ford's is less sophisticated, though. You're just supposed to reset it to zero when you put in a new battery. Forscan can do it, and while not a big deal it's still arguably ridiculous to have to fire up a laptop just to put a new battery in your vehicle.
 
Well stated.

It's even worse. Remember that the real reason John Deere designed the software so that a machine is only repairable by the dealer is money, plain and simple. It was common when I grew up on a farm to fix as much as you could yourself. This is where my first work on machines started. Injection pump or turbo goes bad - take it off and run to the next town to the south where they rebuilt injection pumps and turbos (we did this many times) and they stock all the common pumps and turbos, so you don't wait. John Deere would charge $2000 for a new turbo, but Iowa Diesel would rebuild your turbo for $300 and you didn't pay the John Deere dealer to come out and work on the machine and you didn't wait for them to show up.

Step forward to now. Today when a turbo goes bad, you HAVE to call the John Deere dealer. They come out and charge you a show-up fee, a hourly labor fee, a fee to go get a new turbo, so many fees you can't believe it when you get the invoice, then you get a phone call where the parts manager tells you they can't get a new turbo for 3 days. Not only are you going to pay big $$ for the labor and ancillary fees, but you HAVE you use John Deere's part, because you can't call the software guard-dogs off, as you don't own the keys to the kingdom, John Deere does. Now your repair is 3 days later and costs you $10,000, plus you have the downtime, which is completely intolerable.

I'm all for John Deere making money, they provide a great product that we would literally starve without. However, Deere, in my opinion, has taken the farmer for a ride. Why don't farmers just buy a different color of machinery? Some do, but when Deere is such a large portion of the ag machinery market, you simply can't buy another brand in large quantities.

We refuse to buy any ag machinery where we don't hold the keys to the kingdom.
Isn't there a HUGE market (from Poland, of all places) in cracking JD computers now?

Also, isn't Mahindra making major inroads due in large part to this?
 
Agreed, but it might be quite a lot more than even that. It might be about not allowing you to buy anything, but rather being forced to rent access to or use of everything. EVERYTHING, including your suddenly-3-million-dollars, 2,000 square foot farmhouse on Blackrock's investment property you're allowed to operate if you pay them enough money every month. More likely, though, you'll get to pay enormous rent for the house if you work for them for minimum wage.
So...like property taxes now?
 
Sounds like Ford's BMS which started in '11 on most of their vehicles.

It also sounds like Ford's is less sophisticated, though. You're just supposed to reset it to zero when you put in a new battery. Forscan can do it, and while not a big deal it's still arguably ridiculous to have to fire up a laptop just to put a new battery in your vehicle.
Will the car have a seizure if you DON'T reset it?
 
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