A comparison between Dexron-VI and Dexron-III(H)

[The Critic]

quote:

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Info - Release of DEXRON VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) #04-07-30-037A - (Aug 19, 2005)

Release of DEXRON® VI Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)

2006 and Prior Cars and Light Duty Trucks
2003-2006 HUMMER H2
2006 HUMMER H3
2005 Saturn Relay
2005 and Prior Saturn L-Series
2005-2006 Saturn ION
2005-2006 Saturn VUE with 4T45-E
2005-2006 Saab 9-7X

Except 2006 and Prior Pontiac Vibe and Torrent
Except 2006 and Prior Chevrolet Aveo, Epica, Equinox, Optra
Except 2005-2006 Pontiac Wave
Except 2003-2005 Saturn ION with CVT or AF23 Only
Except 1991-2002 Saturn S-Series
Except 2006 and Prior Saturn VUE with CVT, AF33 or 5AT (MJ7/MJ8) Transmission Only

This bulletin is being revised to announce the use of DEXRON®-VI with the start of the 2006 model year production.

Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 04-07-30-037 (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).

DEXRON®-VI ATF
General Motors Powertrain has recently upgraded to DEXRON®-VI ATF with the start of 2006 vehicle production.
Only 2005 and prior models that currently use DEXRON®-III may use DEXRON®-VI as a replacement.
All 2006 and future models that use DEXRON®-VI are to be serviced with DEXRON®-VI fluid only.
DEXRON®-VI is an improvement over DEXRON®-III in the following area:
DEXRON®-VI
Extended Factory Fill For Life 160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
Clutch Friction Stability Improved 100%
Clutch Durability Due To Fluid Improved 120%
Oil Film Thickness Increased 20%
Fluid Oxidation Improved 100%
Foam / Aeration Improved 150%
Shear Stability Improved 200%
* These ATF change intervals remain the same as DEXRON®-III for the time being.
2006 Transmission Fill and Cooler Flushing
Some new applications of the 6L80 six speed transmission will require the use of the J 45096 -- Flushing and Flow Tester to accomplish transmission fluid fill. It is highly recommended that the clean oil reservoir of the machine be purged of DEXRON®-III and filled with DEXRON®-VI.
Parts Information
Part Number Description
88861003 (US) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 Quart Bottle)
88861045 (US) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 Gallon Bottle)
88861046 (US) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (55 Gallon Drum)
88861004 (CA) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (1 Liter Bottle)
88861043 (CA) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (4 Liter Bottle)
88861044 (CA) DEXRON®-VI Auto Trans Fluid (205 Liter Drum)

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Of course, these comparisons are being made between a conventional Dexron-III(H) and Dexron-VI. The biggest improvement with Dexron-VI, IMO, will be shear stability. The new, low-viscosity Mercon SP has already been shown to be extremely shear stable as illustrated in an UOA posted on this site.

 

[The Critic]

And to add, you can purchase a 12 qt case of Dexron-VI, including shipping, for $4.53/qt from the online GM vendor, GM Parts Direct.

 

[b_rubenstein]

Now we know GM Life = 100,000 miles. If an owner's planned life is longer than that, 50k changes make sense.

 

[Kestas]

Keep in mind that with severe use, the intervals are halved, as stated in the product data.

 

[stingray427]

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Originally posted by b_rubenstein:
Now we know GM Life = 100,000 miles. If an owner's planned life is longer than that, 50k changes make sense.

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I was told by GM Tech on board that the engineers designed the corvette for 300,000 miles provided you use GM fluids.

I hope and wish that this is true.

 

[Tremo]

OK, so when are Pennz, Castrol, Chevron, Valvoline, RL, RP, Ams, etc... going to come out with their versions of Dex6?

We now have the common Dex3/Mercon fluids from all the usual suspects. Will we soon see Dex6/Merc5 fluids? Or are Dex6 and Merc5 too different from each other?

 

[Kestas]

I imagine we'll see Dexron-VI on the shelves as soon as the DIYers start looking for this fluid when their 2006 models come due for maintenance out of warranty. Given with what they read in their manuals (100K intevals with 50K severe service), this may take a couple of years.

 

[stingray427]

But is Dexron 6 better than Redline or Amsoil?

 

[The Critic]

quote:

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Originally posted by b_rubenstein:
Now we know GM Life = 100,000 miles. If an owner's planned life is longer than that, 50k changes make sense.

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That isn't true. Look in the owner's manuals of 2006 GM vehicles.

Most passenger vehicle transmissions (4T45E/4T65E) are considered to be "fill-for-life" units under most driving conditions. I do recall reading somewhere that GM expects these units to last between 150-180K. If I can find this article, I'll post it.

OTOH, pick-up trucks and SUVs require a pan pull/filter change @ 100K even under normal service.

Severe service is defined differently by GM, as far as transmissions goes. Severe service is defined as using the vehicle to tow, or driving in hilly terrain in temperatures exceed 90F. Short trips and stop-n-go driving are not considered severe service.

 

[The Critic]

I take that back. GM expects Dexron-VI to last 100-150K in all applications, so I hope they're implying that their transmissions will last 150K.

quote:

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GM has said it expects Dexron-VI to be a “fill-for-life” fluid, capable of going 100,000 to 150,000 miles in all applications.

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http://www.imakenews.com/lng/e_article000540122.cfm?x=b11,0,w

[ July 20, 2006, 09:32 PM: Message edited by: The Critic ]

 

[b_rubenstein]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic:
I take that back. GM expects Dexron-VI to last 100-150K in all applications, so I hope they're implying that their transmissions will last 150K.

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You can take a lot of the hope out of the equation by just following the severe service maintenance schedule.

Your original release cites life = 100,000 miles.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

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Originally posted by b_rubenstein:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic:
I take that back. GM expects Dexron-VI to last 100-150K in all applications, so I hope they're implying that their transmissions will last 150K.

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You can take a lot of the hope out of the equation by just following the severe service maintenance schedule.

Your original release cites life = 100,000 miles.

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Well, the recommended service interval shown in the owner's manual is different for passenger vehicles. The fluid is considered to be lifetime fill, but 100K in trucks/SUVs. The article I posted makes it clear that GM expects this fluid to last between 100-150K in ALL applications.

 

[stingray427]

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic:

quote:

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Originally posted by b_rubenstein:

quote:

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Originally posted by The Critic:
I take that back. GM expects Dexron-VI to last 100-150K in all applications, so I hope they're implying that their transmissions will last 150K.

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You can take a lot of the hope out of the equation by just following the severe service maintenance schedule.

Your original release cites life = 100,000 miles.

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Well, the recommended service interval shown in the owner's manual is different for passenger vehicles. The fluid is considered to be lifetime fill, but 100K in trucks/SUVs. The article I posted makes it clear that GM expects this fluid to last between 100-150K in ALL applications.

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Let's hope so Just want to get the longest life from transmission and rear end.

 

[Pablo]

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But is Dexron 6 better than Redline or Amsoil?

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Let me see if I can explain. I will assume you mean ATF's offered by Redline and Amsoil.

1) If by "Dexron 6", you mean the GM product in the bottle. I would say Redline and Amsoil ATF are better, especially in a car asking for Dexron IIIH. I have answered this for you in two or three threads.

2) If by "Dexron 6", you mean the specification - I will say it makes no sense to compare a specification to bottled products. Mike's post is about comparing specifications, not products. I will say the GM lauded specification improvements in Dex VI have long been properties of good synthetic ATF - therefore same answer as above. GM is just moving one foot into the 21 century with a syn blend/grp III ATF.

 

[stingray427]

Petrol-Canada and Afton Chemical Co. never heard of these two companies that made this Dexron 6 for GM. Lifetime fill is still hard for me to believe this

 

[Pablo]

Mike - all the properties mentioned by GM have been long been properties of synthetic ATF - in fact the percentages are even better for Amsoil ATF vs dino Dexron IIIF.

quote:

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Extended Factory Fill For Life 160,000 km (100,000 mi) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
80,000 km (50,000 mi) (Severe Use) For Cars and Light Duty Trucks*
Clutch Friction Stability Improved 100%
Clutch Durability Due To Fluid Improved 120%
Oil Film Thickness Increased 20%
Fluid Oxidation Improved 100%
Foam / Aeration Improved 150%
Shear Stability Improved 200%

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Petro-Canada and Afton are well established respected names.

 

[stingray427]

So GM contracted with some reputable companies in this case and didn't go with the lowest bidder? Dexron 6 GOOD STUFF

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

So.... I'm already wondering if Dexron VI should go in my 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD Allison instead of Castrol Transynd?

Or in my 1995 BMW 325ic automatic [ 4 speed GM EAT ]?

Both are Dexron III fluid trannies now.

I think I'll sit on the sidelines and watch for a while.

 

[The Critic]

quote:

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Mike - all the properties mentioned by GM have been long been properties of synthetic ATF - in fact the percentages are even better for Amsoil ATF vs dino Dexron IIIF.

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Help me here. AFAIK, the main difference between Amsoil UATF and a OTC mineral ATF (i.e. Pennzoil), is the quality of the baseoil, correct?

As for the additive package, which is responsible for shudder control, shift feel, etc...I'd suppose that the two are similar, correct?

And I think we're in agreement here that oxidation alone is not the sole factor in determining fluid life, correct? As other factors such as shudder, loss of shift feel, depleted additives, TAN, etc are all part of the equation. If such is the case, why are you assuming that a synthetic ATF alone will automatically extend the drain interval?

But back on topic...

Sure, I'll agree with you that Fluid Oxidation may be better with Amsoil Dexron-III(H) due to the higher quality baseoils used. However, I disagree with shear stability. There are a few UOAs on this site of synthetic ATFs (Dexron III) fluids shearing down more than 15%. OTOH, a recent UOA of a low-viscosity Mercon SP fluid showed very little viscosity loss.

I wonder if Dexron-VI is using fewer VII hence a more shear stable fluid? Perhaps Molakule or Bruce can comment on this.

I'd be using Dexron-VI in both the BMW and the Allison unit.

 

[Thatwouldbegreat]

>>I'd be using Dexron-VI in both the BMW and the Allison unit.
I think I will use it...after I learn more on choice of manufacturers and base stocks, and well it works.