'99 F150 4.6lV8, Havoline 5w20, 6,134 miles

[MNgopher]

Next round of 5w20 use...

The details:

Truck: 1999 Ford F150 Supercab Flareside 4x4
Engine: 4.6L 2V SOHC V8
Oil Filter: Napa Gold (Wix)
Air Filter: Fram (in use for 18,000 miles). Filter still looks good.

Driving: 50/50% freeway/city, about 600 miles of trailer towing, plenty of gravel road and snow driving.

Hav = Texaco Havoline
Valv = Valvoline Durablend

code:

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Oil: Hav Hav Hav Val Val Univ.

DB DB Avg.

Grade: 5w20 5w20 5w20 5w30 5w30

Date: 5/04 1/04 9/03 6/03 1/03

Mi on Oil: 6134 6004 5033 4984 4038 4500

Mi on Unit:102533 96399 90392 85359 80376

Make Up qt:1.5 1.5 1.0 1.0 1.0

Aluminum 5 5 3 4 3 4

Chromium 2 1 1 1 1 1

Iron 28 20 12 14 16 17

Copper 3 3 5 4 2 7

Lead 1 0 0 0 0 1

Tin 0 0 0 0 0 0

Moly 173 200 2 3 3 41

Nickel 2 1 1 2 1

Managnese 0 0 0 0 1

Silver 0 0 0 0 0

Titanium 0 0 0 0 0

Potassium 2 0 1 2 0 1

Boron 18 23 1 1 50

Silicon 17 11 9 9 4 15

Sodium 6 4 3 3 2 5

Calcium 2141 2067 2219 2496 1980 2066

Magnesium 27 33 30 8 12 286

Phosphorous740 770 783 829 721 784

Zinc 884 936 1007 999 908 954

Barium 0 0 0 1 1

Vis 8.3 8.3 8.9 10.3 10.5

TBN 1.6 1.9 4.7 1.8

Flash 405 395 425 400

Fuel 0 0 0 0 0

Glycol 0 0 0 0 0

Water 0 0 0 0 0

Insolubles 0.4 0.4 0.3 0.5

---

My comments: Iron wear is the only number that jumps out at me. Higher than I've seen out of this truck before. I haven't done a breakdown of temps yet to provide any confirmation of this period being colder than usual. Silicon is also up. No mechanical work was done during the period, so I can assume this is dirt ingestion (which the Al number is consistent with at a 3:1 ratio).

Viscosity again held its own and consumption remained consitent.

All in all, while I am happy with the 5w20 overall, the recent upward trend in iron has me scratching my head bit.

I have switched oils and am giving a 1 year run to Shell Rotella T syn 5w40. Then I will have run all three grades I've considered: 5w20, 5w30. amd 5w40.

[ June 10, 2004, 10:00 PM: Message edited by: MNgopher ]

 

[MNgopher]

Some additional numbers to chew on:

Average Temps for each period:

36 31 70 39 44

During the last period, the maximum low temp was -25 F, and the maximum high was 90F. Wonder why we use multi grades?

My point is that overall, the last period was not the coldest of all where I have sampled.

 

[STSinNYC]

Just curious, why you are running relatively long intervlas for a dino, 6K miles. With the towing load and general conditions, would you reduce the wear numbers if you changed at 4 K miles? Or tried adding the Molabrew (132 + LC)?

 

[MNgopher]

Statistically speaking, there is no correllation between a shorter interval and lower wear per 1000 miles based on the results to date. While the overall ppm generally would decrease with a shorter interval, the actual wear rates are gnerally pretty consistant (in fact copper shows a negative relationship right now - wear rates decrease with additional mileage).

Based on UOA, is there some reason to suggest the interval should be shortened?

TBN is above blackstone's condemnation point, wear rates are acceptable, viscosity holds just fine, and the insolubles are in check. Regardless of syn or dino, that being the case, why back off?

If I was into doing 4000 mile changes, I wouldn't bother doing a UOA. Any dino oil will work fine there.

What is the phobia of running a dino oil past 3 or 4 thousand miles when a UOA shoes it is doing an acceptable job?

 

[Whimsey]

Good report. Just another example of those dastardly 5W-20's destroying another motor

. I'll be real interested to see the UOA with the 5W-40. And to get your impressions for "seat of the pants" feel as to any preceived power loss and gas mileage loss due to the 40 wt instead of 20 wt.

Whimsey

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

It will be interesting to see your results with Rotella. Are you considering using a 0w-20 or 0w-30 grade? I'm just wondering if that will help bring down the wear rates.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MNgopher:
I have switched oils and am giving a 1 year run to Shell Rotella T syn 5w40. Then I will have run all three grades I've considered: 5w20, 5w30. amd 5w40.

---

Nice comprehensive post MNgopher, and 6K drains on dinos look like they're working for you well, however, aren't you testing three different brands/types of oil in addition to testing three different grades?

 

[STSinNYC]

No phobias, MNGopher. Run dino 5W-20 myself in our Honda. Was asking out of curiosity.

 

[TheTanSedan]

MNGopher, as always, am enjoying your keeping us in the loop with this vehicle and with the Jeep.

Couldn't agree more in running it to 6000.

Looking forward to more as things progress. Let us know a bit more about unpaved roads/parking lots, humidity, etc. Minnesota may be a long way from Texas (in more ways than one), but the comparisons have been helpful to me.

Also, what sort of driving style? I didn't replace the front pads on our Cherokee until 70k, and, with current tires (at 25k+) have lost only about 1 to 2/32 of tread so far.

In other words, what use is the truck put to under what conditions; a little more detail if you please. Then maybe the FE question may come more clear.

Keep up the good work!

 

[427Z06]

quote:

---

Originally posted by MNgopher:
Some additional numbers to chew on:

Average Temps for each period:

36 31 70 39 44

During the last period, the maximum low temp was -25 F, and the maximum high was 90F. Wonder why we use multi grades?

My point is that overall, the last period was not the coldest of all where I have sampled.

---

Check out the difference in the slope of these curves.

http://www.weather.com/weather/climatology/monthly/USMN0503?from=search

http://www.weather.com/weather/climatology/monthly/78727

 

[Schmoe]

Still don't care for, nor do I YET have confidence in the 5W-20's even though there are some pretty stellar UOA's with this stuff. These Ford modular engines run good on just about anything it seems. I actually don't recall a bad UOA on either the 4.6 or 5.4 engines. Not into stat's or curves or whatever, but there seems to be a relationship between the silicon and aluminum/iron combination. Drop the Si down, and those wear metals may drop as well. Check your air filter, sometimes that big O clamp is hard to seat when putting a new filter back on.

 

[Steve S]

The more anaylsis' I look at the more I can not justify syn oils. except in real cold.

 

[jthorner]

It sure looks like silicon and iron levels are trending up. I would be looking for a small vac. leak, perhaps at one or more of the rubber hoses.

Wear levels are still pretty low, but the upward trend over time in both silicon and iron looks like something to check into.

John

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

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Originally posted by Whimsey:
I'll be real interested to see the UOA with the 5W-40. And to get your impressions for "seat of the pants" feel as to any preceived power loss and gas mileage loss due to the 40 wt instead of 20 wt.

Whimsey

---

Well, I've run about 1000 miles and 4 tanks of gas since switching over. My overall impressions are:

1. The engine makes a bit more noise on startup, but rapidly goes away. Reminds me a bit of what some Fram filters sound like on these engines (note that I am a Wix filter user!).

2. The Butt meter and sense meter tells me the engine is less responsive and feels sluggish at times. We all know the reliability of those meters!

3. Fuel mileage appears to be off over 5% from what I would expect to date based on long term records. Of course, a few more thousand miles will tell the true tale, but I suspected this would be the case.

Too early to tell if consumption is changed.

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

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Originally posted by ToyotaNSaturn:
It will be interesting to see your results with Rotella. Are you considering using a 0w-20 or 0w-30 grade? I'm just wondering if that will help bring down the wear rates.

---

I've thought about it, but all the 0w30 and 0w20 oil I see has a price tag over 4.50 a quart. It was a hard enough pill to swallow to pay 12.88 a gallon (3.22 a quart) for the Rotella! All in all, the 5w series of oils has served me well in this climate, so I'm not inclined to go that route.

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

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Originally posted by 427Z06:
...however, aren't you testing three different brands/types of oil in addition to testing three different grades?

---

Yes, I am. In these runs I beleive the first 5w30 run was SJ Durablend, the second was SL. Both are Group I/Group III blends. The Havoline has come in at least two different flavors, all SL rated. Both were Group II/II+/III belnds. Note the first 5w20 had no moly in it. Now I'm running a straight group III (though with a different feedstock) HDEO.

Too many oils to test and too many variables without having a large fleet at my disposal...

I'm not sure anyone really offers a 5w20, a 5w30, and a 5w40 all in the same lineup (excluding synthetics here - not my cup of tea). Even if they did, the odds of finding all three at one location around here a slim and none!

Oh well, what can ya do?

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TheTanSedan:

Looking forward to more as things progress. Let us know a bit more about unpaved roads/parking lots, humidity, etc. Minnesota may be a long way from Texas (in more ways than one), but the comparisons have been helpful to me.

Also, what sort of driving style? I didn't replace the front pads on our Cherokee until 70k, and, with current tires (at 25k+) have lost only about 1 to 2/32 of tread so far.

In other words, what use is the truck put to under what conditions; a little more detail if you please. Then maybe the FE question may come more clear.

---

Well, lets see if I can help.

In terms of unpaved roads, etc... I frequent the family cabin located 30 miles south of the Canadian border near the Boundary Waters Canoe Area. To get there is a 30 mile drive, one way, from the nearest paved road, So one trip in and back is 60 miles of gravel. You guys would be amazed at the fine dust/ice that gets kicked up on a reltively well travled gravel road at -15 F. If there is no wind, it just hangs there. There were a few trips up there during this interval. The trailer was one round trip to the cabin, roughly 600 miles. The trailer weighed in around 3000 lbs.

In addition, I work as a Civil Engineer and frequent construction sites (thus our current fleet has 2 4x4's in it!). That brings in a whole nother source of dust.

Generally, my commute to work is 30 miles one way, with 20 miles at freeway speeds of 55-75 mph. Even in the winter, the truck should get warmed up relatively well. I switch between this truck and the Jeep, off and on.

Humidity is a funny thing. In the winter, we do get some of those cold damp days, but at -15 F, everything is so dry it doesn't matter! In the spring, days alternate between very dry (humidity between 20-50%) and very humid. Summers can be humid for a few days at a time, then drying out again. Dewpoints in the upper 60s and 70s are not uncommon, but we only see that 20 days a summer or so. There were few of those days in this period though!

As you can probably see, I log a lot of relatively easy miles. I average around 20,000+ per year. I've done the front brakes once on this truck at 70,000 miles, the rear discs are original. I'm on my third set of tires, but not because I wore them out - the originals tires were Firestone Wilderness HT's - an all season tire. These weren't cutting it, and I swapped them off on my other truck. I ran a set of Goodyear Wrangler RTS tires for about 50k, and they weren't even close to wearing out when one slipped a belt. I couldn't wait to replace them with a tire with better snow and rain traction. I got the Bridgestone Dueler REVO's and they were worth every penny! At last check I'm around 13/32 of tread depth (started with 17/32) after over 20k.

All in all, the truck worked harder the previous interval hauling firewood, etc, than this interval, in my opinion.

Sorry I rambled on, but more info is always good, right?

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 427Z06:

quote:

---

Originally posted by MNgopher:
Some additional numbers to chew on:

Average Temps for each period:

36 31 70 39 44

During the last period, the maximum low temp was -25 F, and the maximum high was 90F. Wonder why we use multi grades?

My point is that overall, the last period was not the coldest of all where I have sampled.

---

Check out the difference in the slope of these curves.

http://www.weather.com/weather/climatology/monthly/USMN0503?from=search

http://www.weather.com/weather/climatology/monthly/78727

---

Thanks for posting those. The "average" temps I post are based on National Weather Service data, but they tend to wipe out some of the highs and lows. I was tracking that another way (numbers of days with temps below 32, no of days with temps below zero, etc...), but I lost that info somewhere... I'll have to find it again!

One thing we can say though, is we truly get all four seasons here! Of course spring is so short, you might miss it if you blink, but...

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by MNgopher:



I'm not sure anyone really offers a 5w20, a 5w30, and a 5w40 all in the same lineup (excluding synthetics here - not my cup of tea).

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I don't even think there is such a thing as a non synthetic 5w40 oil.

 

[MNgopher]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:

quote:

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Originally posted by MNgopher:



I'm not sure anyone really offers a 5w20, a 5w30, and a 5w40 all in the same lineup (excluding synthetics here - not my cup of tea).

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I don't even think there is such a thing as a non synthetic 5w40 oil.

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Though plenty of folks on this board won't call the Group III Rotella T 5w40 a "synthetic" oil...