97 Pontiac GTP L67 3800, GC 0w30 4.4k

[ATS-V]

Comments welcome.

Code:


OIL GC0w30 GC0w30 M15w30* M15w30* M15w30 M15w30EP M15w30 M110w30 M15w30 M110w30

MILES IN USE 4.4k 4.6k 4.8k 5.5k 5.7k 5.6k 6.2k 8.7k 7k 5k Uni Avg

MILES 152.5k 148.1k 143.5k 138.7k 133.2k 128k 121.9k 115.7k 107k 95k

SAMPLE TAKEN 10/27/07 7/21/07 4/7/07 1/6/07 9/2/06 5/7/06 1/7/06 8/21/05 2/28/05 6/6/04



ALUMINUM 2 3 4 3 2 2 3 2 2 2 3

CHROMIUM 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 1 1 1 1

IRON 12 17 24 19 14 16 22 18 17 13 14

COPPER 14 13 12 14 14 13 15 17 13 16 18

LEAD 22 19 10 14 28 11 23 42 5 5 7

TIN 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 2 1 1

MOLYBDENUM 6 18 91 84 82 72 85 77 60 70 41

NICKEL 0 1 1 2 0 0 1 0 0 1 0

MANGANESE 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0 0

SILVER 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

TITANIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

POTASSIUM 6 10 20 9 6 6 11 17 11 7 7

BORON 5 12 57 60 51 122 55 106 104 150 45

SILICON 7 9 11 11 11 11 12 9 9 11 11

SODIUM 19 24 46 20 6 9 10 14 12 19 11

CALCIUM 1866 2013 2564 2308 2731 2294 2705 2780 2302 3134 2128

MAGNESIUM 525 424 20 15 14 19 19 19 25 23 131

PHOSPHORUS 842 797 737 658 673 698 677 745 592 831 741

ZINC 1082 1041 932 818 834 870 838 946 694 983 901

BARIUM 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0





INSOLUBLES 0.4 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.3 0.4 0.4 0.5

WATER 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.1 0

FLASHPOINT ºF 415 395 405 395 390 370 395 425 385 375

SUS VIS 210ºF 66.8 67.7 63.6 64.4 63.2 62.5 61.8 65.3 63 62.2

cSt @ 212ºF 12.11 12.33 11.22 11.44 11.11 10.91 10.7 11.68 11.05 10.8









* 4 qts M1 5w30 + 1 qt M1EP 15w50

 

[T-Keith]

Why does this engine put out so much more wear metals then most 3800s? Our old Lesabre(L36) had less lead with a massive coolant leak.

 

[ATS-V]

Quote:

Why does this engine put out so much more wear metals then most 3800s?


That's the $64,000 question!

Lead is the only thing out of whack. Prior to the 8/21/05 sample, wear was great. I think after this fill of GC I'll go to a 5w40. At least it's been consistent.

 

[wizzells]

Like has been said, the lead number is probably the only one to even be the slightest bit concerned about. How do you treat the car? Lots of WOT? Are you hard on it before it's fully warmed up?

Here's an analysis from my '97 GP with the L36 from a couple years ago. Granted the interval is shorter, I did have a coolant leak which is why the OCI was so short. I was running 7500 intervals prior to that and was seeing a similar number for lead.

UOA with M1 5w-30

 

[Bror Jace]

Persistent traces of sodium and potassium ... along with elevated iron, copper and lead wear ... suggest you have a long-term (but only slight) coolant leak.

97 GTP, how much is this car's engine worth to you? I'd send your data to Terry Dyson for his analysis.

 

[Cutehumor]

looks like a small coolant leak to me too. have you used the GM coolant tabs?

 

[ATS-V]

wizzells
The car is treated OK. I don't baby it by any means, but "try" to get the coolant temp up before putting a heavy load on it.

Bror Jace
I agree with the small coolant leak, but I don't see it as a cause of the leads issue. All other numbers are below average for this motor.

Cutehumor
GM tabs were added a couple weeks after 4/07, coolant was changed shortly prior to that interval.

It looks like I hads better wear with the M1 mix than GC.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: 97 GTP
wizzells

Cutehumor
GM tabs were added a couple weeks after 4/07, coolant was changed shortly prior to that interval.

It looks like I hads better wear with the M1 mix than GC.


It looks like the coolant tabs are working! potassium and sodium have been cut in half since your 4/7/07 UOA, all similiar mileages posted since then too.

 

[Merkava_4]

It's time for Lower Intake Manifold gaskets.

 

[jorton]

Lead went back up after coolant tabs were added. Do tabs contain lead?

 

[Bror Jace]

97GTP: "I agree with the small coolant leak, but I don't see it as a cause of the lead issue. All other numbers are below average for this motor."

Well, lead was one of the elements elevated in my '95 Civic which had a bad head gasket. None of my elevated levels were at alarming levels ... even though I waited a year to finally replace my head gasket and did 3 UOAs during that time. I was using Red Line Oil then and that oil tends to show more metal as well. (My rambling point is coolant contamination may be subtle in some applications).

The conventional wisdom says that glycol in coolant eats bearings. Add this to my documented experience and I still think that some of the lead you're seeing is a result of coolant contamination. Some may be the tabs ... I can't comment on those.

 

[ATS-V]

Bror,

If you look at the first couple of UOA on this motor you'll understand why I'm not 100% convinced.

 

[ATS-V]

jorton,

I don't believe the tabs contain any lead, I'll check the package anf report back.

 

[Bror Jace]

"If you look at the first couple of UOA on this motor you'll understand why I'm not 100% convinced."

Your UOAs from '04 & '05? Lead was in the single digits with same or more miles. Or did you mean something else? :???:

My years looking at UOAs tells me that if you think you're looking at a coolant leak, you probably are.

However, depending on the severity, fixing the problem may be wayy more expensive than using a cheaper oil and changing it every 2,000 - 2,500 miles to flush out the contamination. :dunno:

Good luck regardless of the direction/remediation you choose.

 

[ATS-V]

Quote:
"If you look at the first couple of UOA on this motor you'll understand why I'm not 100% convinced."

Your UOAs from '04 & '05? Lead was in the single digits with same or more miles. Or did you mean something else? :???:


That's exactly what I meant.