'97 Honda Civic- Cylinder 2 Misfire

[ltslimjim]

Knock sensor setting off or bad to the point of pulling the timing advance towards limp mode??

Check timing and valves at least.

Situations like this always makes me wonder if something internally was replaced or worked on and wasn't done quite right OR what went wrong in the first place/why did it happen anyway?

 

[LeakySeals]

Questions
History on the car. Who was the prior owner? Can you get hold of him?
Is it modified from factory in any way? (cold air intake, engine mods, etc)
Have you disconnected the battery for a half hour to reset the ECU?
Do you have the correct OE plugs in vehicle?
What type of fuel injector cleaner did you use?
My sons corolla had a serious problem with the variable valve timing system. Your civic likely uses something similar. The random misfires could be a timing issue. VVT relies heavily on oil pressure monitored by sensors. When was the oil last changed? Open the oil filler cap and look down inside the engine. Is it sludgy, have a dark brown varnish?

 

[LeakySeals]

Add this question. Above you mention "adjustments" to the throttle body. Was he turning the TPS sensor to adjust idle? If so will attempt to explain why that may be a bad idea in your current situation.

 

[panthermike]

1. Prior owner was a young kid, owned the car since 2007. He can definately try to get ahold of him.

2. From what we can see, no mods other than a fartcan muffler.

3. Yes we have reset the ECU a couple of times.

4. We used NGK resistor plugs. The computer at O'reillys said these were OE.

5. We used Regane in the tank.

6. Oil according to sticker was 1500 miles ago. Car does seem to be using oil, around a qt in 500 miles, no apparent leaking. Inside of the engine looks beautiful, no sludge or varnish.

7. It was my sister's boyfriend that adjusted the idle, I'll have to ask how he did it.

The reason I suspected incorrect installation was because of the guys age, his buddy was a "tech" at Midas, and the VIN doesn't match on the motor.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
1. Prior owner was a young kid, owned the car since 2007. He can definately try to get ahold of him.

2. From what we can see, no mods other than a fartcan muffler.

3. Yes we have reset the ECU a couple of times.

4. We used NGK resistor plugs. The computer at O'reillys said these were OE.

5. We used Regane in the tank.

6. Oil according to sticker was 1500 miles ago. Car does seem to be using oil, around a qt in 500 miles, no apparent leaking. Inside of the engine looks beautiful, no sludge or varnish.

7. It was my sister's boyfriend that adjusted the idle, I'll have to ask how he did it.

The reason I suspected incorrect installation was because of the guys age, his buddy was a "tech" at Midas, and the VIN doesn't match on the motor.


Does the ECM then match the engine that is in the car?

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
The reason I suspected incorrect installation was because of the guys age, his buddy was a "tech" at Midas, and the VIN doesn't match on the motor.


OK lets check that first. type the 2 VIN #'s into the Orange VIN box at hondapartseast.com See what you get. Your looking for make/model of car it came out of, and the control module part number --> Electrical/Exhaust/Heater/fuel -> Control unit (cabin) -->Control Module, Engine. Take it from there. Does the car have a salvage title? find that out too.

 

[garlicbreadman]

looks like he bought someone else's trouble

 

[panthermike]

Overkill and LeakySeals, your posts made me do a little more investigating on the car. It appears I made a mistake, the motor, firewall, and doors match up. It was the driver door that doesn't match up. Also, the VIN on the title matches

.

So, it appears the motor is original. Rookie mistake.

This car seems to have had a similar issue.
Honda Timing Belt

 

[LeakySeals]

OK thats ruled out. What about the throttle adjustment and subsequent misfires? What exactly was the adjustment. On a hunch, pop open the oil filler cap. Shine a flashlight down there. Describe condition. Sludge? Dark varnish?

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: panthermike
Overkill and LeakySeals, your posts made me do a little more investigating on the car. It appears I made a mistake, the motor, firewall, and doors match up. It was the driver door that doesn't match up. Also, the VIN on the title matches

.

So, it appears the motor is original. Rookie mistake.

This car seems to have had a similar issue.
Honda Timing Belt


That post appears to be a guy that replaced his timing belt improperly. self inflected rather than a random CEL.

 

[vssjim]

rich codes on Honda's like this with a MAP sensor is usually a tight valve adjustment or a timing belt off causing low vacume at idle.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
OK thats ruled out. What about the throttle adjustment and subsequent misfires? What exactly was the adjustment. On a hunch, pop open the oil filler cap. Shine a flashlight down there. Describe condition. Sludge? Dark varnish?


He's said a couple of different times that it's completely spotless in there. Also said that this engine doesn't have VTECH.

 

[LeakySeals]

Originally Posted By: The_Eric
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
OK thats ruled out. What about the throttle adjustment and subsequent misfires? What exactly was the adjustment. On a hunch, pop open the oil filler cap. Shine a flashlight down there. Describe condition. Sludge? Dark varnish?


He's said a couple of different times that it's completely spotless in there. Also said that this engine doesn't have VTECH.


OK I see where he said non-vtec. I wasnt sure what he meant by spotless engine internal or external. Maybe they should just go to the dealer, pay to find out, get a quote for repair, leave and do it themselves.

 

[panthermike]

Sorry about that, spotless on the internals. Our next move is to check the timing/timing belt. If that doesn't work, then off to the mechanic she goes!

I really do appreciate all of your guys help

 

[ltslimjim]

Have you checked the PCV valve/system? I'm curious...probably not a problem if the engine is 'spotless'. And, you have checked for vacuum leaks at idle too, etc?

Things seem to point toward timing or failing ignition component, or along those lines.

 

[panthermike]

Update:

Took the car in today. Came back as low compression in cylinder #2(85). The mechanic told me to check valve adjustment. We will also check timing and swap the timing belt(it looks bad, cracked). He mentioned if this doesn't fix the problem, then we're likely looking at a valve job on the head. If that turns out to be the case, the car may be unloaded.

Hoping for the best though!

 

[panthermike]

We performed the job yesterday, changed the T-belt and adjusted the timing. Also found that the harmonic balancer is shot. That will get done this week.

Car is running so much better though! It isn't stumbling, CEL is off, and it has gained a lot of acceleration back.

I still hear a ping though(at least I believe that's what it is), but that's reduced as well.

Now we need to do ATF service, harmonic balancer, and the lower motor mount(worse than the top one already replaced).

Thanks for all of the help everyone.

 

[ltslimjim]

^How can one tell if a harmonic balancer is bad?

Thanks for the update.

 

[panthermike]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
^How can one tell if a harmonic balancer is bad?

Thanks for the update.


There's a hairline crack in it. At least I don't think it's normal?

 

[panthermike]

Update on this car;

Still haven't done the balancer. Car runs great but uses oil at a pretty high rate. I've done one piston soak and will do another one at the next OCI. Sitting at 159,000 miles now.

Hopefully we can get the oil burning to calm down a bit. It's hard to pinpoint, but I'd say a quart every 750 miles or so.