'88 Nissan Pickup overheating

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My wife's '88 Nissan pickup (4 cyl Z24i engine, 5 speed, 2wd, 182,500 miles) is almost overheating when the AC is on, even at interstate speeds. I say "almost" overheating, because with the AC on, the needle is just over 3/4's on the temp gauge (just shy of the "hot" line). It used to only go to the exact center of the gauge. With the AC off, it still only goes to the middle regardless of interstate or city driving. All basic maintenance is up to date, including plugs, wires, cap, rotor, one ignition coil, all filters, fresh oil, coolant flushed (twice), thermostat, radiator cap, and new water pump with integral fan & clutch. The water pump was actually replaced twice, because the original one started weeping, and the second one had a "weak" fan clutch according to a local shop. It's currently on a rinse phase of AutoRx with GTX 10w40, but the problem existed before the AutoRx.

Today, I had her run the AC on her way home so I could check the actual temp of her coolant. After only a 5 mile drive, and with the temp gauge showing 3/4's up, the coolant temp was 217*F according to my multimeter. This was after several minutes of her parking it, and venting the pressure to avoid burning myself. Her thermostat is rated at 180*F, and I could tell when it opened while flushing the cooling system the other day. So I think it is good. The coolant is Prestone All Makes, mixed 50/50 with water.

Only things I can think of would be her radiator is partially clogged, or her timing is slightly off. But I'm not sure which one to pursue first, if it's either. With the radiator, I already ran a bottle of the Super Flush through for the several hundred miles per the instructions, then flushed using a Prestone flush kit (the type with the "T" installed in the heater hose). There is an orangish "coating" inside the radiator, but not anything I would consider excessive. Her timing is on according to my timing light, but her idle speed had been messed with, and I only have the idle set by ear. I don't have a tach handy to get the idle speed dead on, and Nissan didn't see fit to install one in the truck even though it is a 5 speed. So the timing could be (and probably is) slightly off. I doubt by much because the truck drives decently, although fuel mileage could be better. I don't have hard data on what the mileage used to be, but now it averages 22 mpg with all city driving. I seem to remember it used to be around 25.

Has anybody experienced this type of problem before? I'm open to all suggestions. If it is the radiator partially clogged, would running another chemical flush do any good, or any harm? And if it is the timing, which way would cause it to overheat (advanced or retarded)? I'm trying to find an inductive pickup tach locally so I can get the idle and timing set perfect, but haven't had any luck. So I may end up having to order one, which would take several days to arrive. And ordering one would also depend on cost, too.

TIA.

Dave
 
I'd replace that thermostat for starters. The second place to look would be the fan clutch. Not finding anything in those places, I'd have the radiator flow tested.
 
Use an aftermarket water temp gauge to verify actual water temp.
Set the idle/timing correctly. A multimeter, that has a tach, can be purchased for
And, what brands of cooling system components are you using?
 
If there wasn't any overheating in the past (not distant past), I would recommend the following:

(1) get a proper timing light (the ones that does not come with adjustable timing advance adjustments for over 80% of them are inaccurate to begin with). Get in inductive idle (RPM) meter.

Adjust your timing properly to factory specs.

(2) check to ensure that your spark plugs are of proper heat range

(3) check and flush your rad and all the nooks and crannies with good quality alkali based coolant flush and make sure that you go with good 50/50 ratio of ethylene glycol coolant.

(4) replace thermostat with factory OE units. IMHO 80% of the time, aftermaket ones may not work properly (other than some Stant high-flow ones that I've used before)

(5) perform a gasket leak test to ensure that you do not have coolant leak into the combustion chamber.

(6)check to see if your A/C compressor is having some problems (is the clutch/pulley performing smoothly w/o excessive resistance?)

(7) check to see if there's any actual debris such as leaves, etc. that is covering your radiator.
 
Sure, it will help to clean our the radiator and condensor fins. A new themostat is cheap, and good insurance.
But the coolant can reach 217F and be normal, under those conditions. that's whys ystems are pressurized, and the cooland mix also raises the boiling point.
Are you overflowing into the catch tank for the coolant? If not, it's probably OK.
 
I once owned a 88 4x4 with the 2.4 4 cylinder. I had the same problem. It would run almost (past 3/4) hot at highway speed. It never got all the way to hot. I changed coolant,thermostats,fans even the radiator. After about a year someone told me it was the catalytic converter. Had a new one put on and temp went back to normal (below halfway) and had more power in high rpms.
 
If you're overheating that quickly, I'd also suspect a headgasket problem. This happened to me on my last small block rebuild.

Other symptoms include the coolant overflow reservoir overflowing when the engine isn't quite overheated yet.

In that case, what is happening is that the combustion gasses are heating up and overpressuring the cooling system causing rapid heat-up and overflow of the coolant reservoir.

You can check for this condition by going to a good radiator shop. They'll have a chemical device they can hold over your open rad-cap that can detect hydrocarbons in your coolant. If there are any, then you've got a head-gasket problem.
 
In answer to another question, overly advanced timing will cause hotter running. It will also cause a ton of pinging/engine knock.
 
Thanks for everyone's advice. The wife took it by a local shop today, and the mechanic said the fan clutch was shot. He grabbed the fan with his hand while it was idling and it stopped easily (I'm not too sure about that method of testing, because what if it isn't bad?). This is the second one in a row from AutoZone that is bad. And I had just read someone's post on here about AutoZone being the "Walmart" of auto chains. I'm believing it now.

Since the fan/water pump assembly has a lifetime warranty, it's being changed out in the morning. The shop is also going to double check the idle speed and timing. This shop is owned by a friend of my wife's family, and just recently fixed her AC system. The AC compressor is new, and the problem existed prior to its replacement. When they did the AC system, the owner had stated to me that the fan seemed weak, as in not drawing enough air. I had totally forgot about that until today. They're a reputable shop, so I'll trust them for now.

If it continues to do it after the trip to the shop, I'll start checking all the other things mentioned. A chemical flush and OEM thermostat will probably be first, then on down the list.

Most of the items mentioned had already been checked, but I had failed to mention them. Plugs (8 of them in this 4 cylinder) are of the proper heat ranges and new (exhaust side is different from intake plugs). Radiator fins are clear. When it gets warm, it overflows in to the overflow tank, then sucks back in as it cools. The head gasket isn't showing any signs of leakage (oil in coolant or vice-versa, and both stay at exact same level). But I'll check it too.

I'm hoping that what the shop will be doing will fix it right. I appreciate everyone's advice. Getting it fixed will mean the wife won't want to use my car as much to go to work and school. I'll post the outcome when we get it back. And even if its fixed, I'll check some of the things mentioned anyways just because of mileage (like the converter).

Dave
 
Dave,

I never did trust fan clutches. I'm surprised a 1988 vehicle would have one. You might think about getting a retrofit kit to switch over to electric fans.
smile.gif
 
We didn't get the truck back yet as the shop is waiting on the part. Should be in first thing in the morning, and they'll get it done then.

Clyde,

I've long thought about switching it over to a dual electric fan setup like on my Maxima. One primary 2 speed fan for general cooling, and a secondary that kicks on when really hot or whenever the AC is on. Works very well, and seems pretty logical. Interestingly, I had the secondary fan on my Maxima start making really grotesque noises from the bearings or something going out. I had to wait for the dealership to get the part in, and in the meantime, the tech told me to just unplug it. This was in the scorching Louisiana summer, and the car never ran hot at all (for 3 weeks or so, too). Only problem was the AC got warm when stopped at redlights. When on the interstate, it worked fine. And the temp gauge never rose above its normal half-way position at any time.

Anyways, do you have any suggestions on a good electric fan kit or set? I'd need everything from the fans to relays, thermostat type switch, etc... And how do aftermarket fans work without a properly fitting fan shroud?

Once again, I appreciate everyone's input.

Dave
 
My 94 Nissan Hardbody ran hot till I replaced the radiator. I replaced the water pump several years ago also. I made the mistake of running a stop leak product so for $138 the radiator did the trick.My 2.4 also gets around 22 mpg in town and I have around 150K on it now. Great little truck few things you have to do to them to give good performance.
 
Got an update. The shop changed the water pump/fan assembly. It overheated on the wife on her way home. This time she said the gauge went past where it normally did, and she pulled over. Then the upper radiator hose blew off. Luckily one of our friends was on his way home from work, and he helped her out. The truck went back to the shop, who then changed the thermostat today. It acted OK on the wife's way home, but she hasn't had it on the interstate yet, and it was less than 5 miles from the shop to our house. I doubt this will do anything, as I had already changed the thermostat when it first started acting up (alonhg with water pump/fan & clutch twice). They also said they don't have a tach that will work on my wife's truck in order for them to set the idle speed and timing. I'm really starting to wonder about this shop, even though they have a good reputation (small town).
When I get a chance, I'll check out the converter. It makes sense that a clogged cat could do it. Thanks for the idea Stumpman.
Clyde, the electric fans are another possibility, but that may have to wait. I think I need to get to the root of the problem first. I don't know if swapping one good fan for another would make any difference right now. But it would be a better option once everything is running right (that link has one for her truck). And I did find a set for my step-Dad's Duramax that'll free up 27 horses for him.

I'll update this thread when we find out anything else for sure.

Dave
 
Dave H
I would bet better than even money that your over-heating problem can be sourced to something you can't see and that is difficult to measure. Your tubes in your radiator are partially or some are completely clogged. If your water pump is flowing ,then the coolant is not passing thru the radiator fast enough to dissapate the heat generated in the engine. If you at any time, even just once, introduced anything but DISTILLED WATER to your coolant mix, you'll have created a sludge from the added chemicals at the water treatment plant or many that occur naturally. These smaller trucks have NO EXTRA CAPACITY so any restiction will cause rather instant over-heating. If you do the job yourself, read up on your coolant choices as there are several to choose from.
 
Gary,
It has been my experience that the heater core will be the first part of the cooling system to fail because of its location and constrictions in the smaller core (lots of complaints of little or no heat as a car ages}. Would this cause a false read if attempting to use the extra area of the heater? Other possible causes could be an impeller installed at rebuilder backwards, I've seen this happen before, however remote the chances are. I would say that if you could get a small light and peak inside the radiator neck, unless it is shiny in there, it is probably clogged. Any whiteness at all and I would change-out this radiator. After this smoker of a weekend up here, there will be a lot of bad radiators surfacing.
 
H2 ..sure ..the only point that I was making is that if the problem is relieved under the current state of the event by using the heater core ..regardless of its condition (we don't know - one would assume that the user would have the tactile sensory ability to detect HOT, above ambient, air coming from the heater) and noted the DISTINCT lowering of indicted engine temp ...that common sense dictates that adding more "effective" square footage (inches) of radiating surfaces ...did indeed relieve the condition. This would lead most to the conclusion that although it may not be the cause of the problem ..that is it cured by more capacity.

Again AC by itself shouldn't add enough "load" to elevate temps that much. As I said, this can be simulated by higher speeds and/or just loading the truck with stuff (going faster is easier). If those "tests" don't result in higher temps ..the it is sensible to assume that the added btu load in front of the radiator is the reason for the abnormal temps.

The question is then why can't the rad reject the added heat? You still don't know if it's clogged or not. You only know how to releive the symptom.

If it's a head gasket issue, it should happen whether or not the AC is on.

[ June 17, 2006, 05:04 PM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
 
If this is a radiator capacity problem, it should be indicated by the heater core being used as auxillary cooling. This won't necessarily mean that anything is wrong with the rad ..just that added cooling capacity relieves the symptom ...but to continue with H2GURU's thought here..... AC should not add any real load to an engine that can't be topped by going faster or loading the pickup with something. It does, however add more thermal load to the radiator.
 
Don't just go by the needle position of the temp gauge. Many of the gauges these days are not "analog" in the truest sense. I know on my Maxima, the gauge has discrete "stops". That's how they can keep the gauge rock steady at the middle of the gauge.

- vikas
 
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