5W20 and summer heat

flynavydiesel · May 17, 2004

My new to me 2003 Ford Windstar recommends using 5W20 and no other weight of oil

. I know this is due to CAFE and such but 5W20 can't meet all types of driving conditions or can it?

We are heading across the country this summer through the southernm states, read extremely hot and mountainous terrain. Can a 5W20 handle the heat? I am going to go synthetic for sure but what weight would be good? I have read that the 5W30's sheer too much, would 10W30 be the way to go?

92saturnsl2 · May 17, 2004

I am quite leary of 5w-20 engine oils especially during summer heat, but many have posted excellent oil analyses using these oils in all types of driving conditions.

It is true that a 5w-30 oil is more susceptible to shearing, but that is typical of conventional oils, and cheap synthetics only, Mobil1 and several other synthetics do not share this trait.

If you're spending the extra on synthetic, I'd recommend 5w-30 Mobil1, which has no viscosity improvers, which means it is very resistant to shearing. Read your manual to be sure the use of this oil will not void your warranty.

Another oil to consider is the 0w-20 from Mobil1 which is approved for Fords requiring 5w-30, and it's one of the best synthetics you can buy off the shelf.

road_rascal · May 17, 2004

I ran Castrol GTX 5w/30 in my 2001 Windstar (now using Chevron Supreme 5w/30) without any problems. I did a UOA on the Castrol and I found it to be fine. Here's the link for the results:
Windstar UOA

TC · May 17, 2004

Here's just one example of how good the 5w-20's can be. This UOA, on a 2000 V-6 Ford Contour, shows almost identical wear between Motorcraft 5w-20 and Mobil 1 0w-40. Keep in mind that if your Windstar has an efficient cooling system (the temp needle doesn't budge from its middle spot whether it's January or July, whether it's driven hard or not), the oil won't even know it's hot outside -- it only knows that the engine is at the same temp it always is, regardless of the season.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001246

A 3.0 Ford Escape UOA using 5w-20, with minimal iron/lead/copper wear all under 10 ppm:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=001170

I'd suggest using a slightly thicker weight during this summer trip if it will give you peace-of-mind, but UOAs such as these strongly suggest that such weights aren't NECESSARY in your ride.

flynavydiesel · May 17, 2004

Those UOA's definitely tell a good tale. I guess I too am just leary of the 5W20 since I have always used the heavier oils. My manual just states use 5W20 and does not really come out and say using a different weight will void the warranty. The Motorcraft oil seems to be doing very well on the UOA's and it is a synthetic blend.

You make a good point about the engine temps, I have no idea how this one handles as I have only had it for a week.

Decisions decisions

Jelly · May 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by TC:
Here's just one example of how good the 5w-20's can be. This UOA, on a 2000 V-6 Ford Contour, shows almost identical wear between Motorcraft 5w-20 and Mobil 1 0w-40.

This is VERY misleading IMHO.

Over the long run, the synthetic M1 will keep the engine MUCH, MUCH cleaner than the mineral 5w-20 which is VERY important for long engine life!

Look...I'm a fan of thicker oils with high HT/HS values, and I'm just as much a skeptic as anyone else! It very hard for me to fathom something that comes in around 8.5cSt being able to protect in high-heat conditions or offering ideal protection when taking a long road trip, spending hours at a time going at least 70mph.

DON'T WORRY THOUGH...these "new" twenty-weights are doing exceptionally well in the engines they are specified for, and with this in mind, I would go over to Wally-World, pick up some M1 0w-20 and a Motorcraft filter.

Simply use the Ford change interval and you'll be set!

[ May 17, 2004, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

JTK · May 17, 2004

I've got a 2001 winny as well. To be honest, I'd be more concerned with keeping the cooling system & ATF clean, fresh and up to snuff. The van will fall apart LONG before the old school pushrod 3.8 will- running on 5w-20.
G/luck
Joel

khager · May 17, 2004

This was my UOA on Pennzoil 5W-20 after going thru a hot Texas Summer temps up to 110F a lot of it in rush hour conditions in the afternoon.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000801#000000

Mobil 1 0W-20 IMO would do even better if you don't mind spending the $$$

Also Motorcraft's 5W-20 would do just as well.

MikeR · May 17, 2004

Seems that 5w-20 dino oils are often (if not always) actually Group III blends, in order to meet requirements. Often have a buttload of Moly and Boron too, as compared to their 5/10w-30 counterparts.

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=11;t=000148#000000

So a UOA of a 5w-20 vs a 5w-30 isn't really an apples:apples comparison. The 5w-20 oil is a flat out better oil.

Some of these 5w-20 oils appear to be a heck of an oil for the money, if your car specs it (and you can get your head around the idea of running a 20wt oil). I'll leave that one to another thread...

M

darkdan · May 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by TC:
(the temp needle doesn't budge from its middle spot whether it's January or July, whether it's driven hard or not),

That's because it's a dummy gauge. As long as it's between this temp and that temp it doesn't move. Usually about a 40 degree range.

JohnBrowning · May 17, 2004

To be honest their is no way that they would know a 20wt from a 5W30 once it has been in the crankcase for a while. The dealer only knows what you tell him. So for warranty purposes I would not worry about the weight issue unless you are a blabber mouth and like to tell on yourself. I too could never bring myself to run a 5W20!!! Most of the 20Wt. oils are really close to being a 30Wt. and Mobiles 30Wt.s both the 5W30 and 10W30 are close to being a 20Wt.

You could easily put M1 5W30 or M1 10W30 in for peace of mind! The M1R OW30 Race also comes to mind. IF you go conventional then a good 10W30 like Delo 10W30, Chevron Supreme, or Havoline etc. Remember that conventionals oils are going to shear a lot more with use then synthetic.

I am never going to be able to own a Honda or a Ford!!! I could never bring myself to run a 20Wt. oil with no alternative listed!

JohnnyO · May 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by 92saturnsl2:
Another oil to consider is the 0w-20 from Mobil1 which is approved for Fords requiring 5w-30, and it's one of the best synthetics you can buy off the shelf.

I think you meant "requiring 5w-20". I don't have a vehicle that requires it but the UOA section here shows good results on different engines with the Motorcraft brand 5w-20 and I think the M1 0w-20 would be great also.

flynavydiesel · May 17, 2004

Well, I think as of this moment that I am going to stick with the 5W20 but go full synthetic, AMSOIL. I will run a OA on it after the trip and see how it held up. AMSOIL has done good by me on the truck so now we will see how it holds up in the van. Plus I might get to like the 20wts oil!!!

G-MAN · May 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by flynavydiesel:
Well, I think as of this moment that I am going to stick with the 5W20 but go full synthetic, AMSOIL. I will run a OA on it after the trip and see how it held up. AMSOIL has done good by me on the truck so now we will see how it holds up in the van. Plus I might get to like the 20wts oil!!!

Keep in mind that Amsoil's 5w20 is Group III not PAO.

bigbassfisher · May 17, 2004

My dad owns an 01' accord v6 and the manual says if 5w-20 is not available, 5w-30 is ok to use. Does anybody else have this in thier Honda manual?

flynavydiesel · May 17, 2004

It's not a PAO?? I better check that out, I thought it was.

G-MAN · May 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by flynavydiesel:
It's not a PAO?? I better check that out, I thought it was.

It has some impressive specs nonetheless.

Sin City · May 17, 2004

Amsoil XL-7500 is a group III oil but look at the specs. It meets the HT/HS specs for a xx-30 motor oil (HT/HS @ 150 C >2.9 cP). We have never seen a UOA for the group III Amsoil XL-7500 5W-20 motor oil.

TYPICAL TECHNICAL PROPERTIES (Revised 4/03)
AMSOIL SAE 5W-20 XL-7500 SYNTHETIC MOTOR OIL 5W-20
(XLM)

Kinematic Viscosity @ 100°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
8.9

Kinematic Viscosity @ 40°C, cSt (ASTM D-445)
45.0
Viscosity Index (ASTM D-2270)
183
CCS Viscosity, cP @ (°C) (ASTM D2602)
3670 (-30)
Flash Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
229 (444)
Fire Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 92)
242 (468)
Pour Point °C (°F) (ASTM D 97) -46 (-51)
Noack Volatility, % weight loss (g/100g) (DIN 51581)
8.2
High Temperature/High Shear Viscosity @ 150°C and 1.0 X 106 s-1, cP (ASTM D4683) 2.9
Four Ball Wear Test (ASTM D 4172 @ 40 kgf, 150°C, 1800 rpm, 1 hour, Scar in mm)
0.38
Total Base Number (ASTM D2896) 10.2

benjamming · May 17, 2004

quote:

Originally posted by bigbassfisher:
My dad owns an 01' accord v6 and the manual says if 5w-20 is not available, 5w-30 is ok to use. Does anybody else have this in thier Honda manual?

My '02 manual states on page 251: "If 5W-20 is not available, a 5W-30 oil may be used. However, it should be replaced with 5W-20 at the next oil change."

427Z06 · May 17, 2004

I consider the "new" 5w20s equivalent to a light viscosity 5w30 semi-syn. In that regard, they're probably better than most inexpensive PCEO 5w30s when it comes to handling heat or extreme driving conditions and are a bargain to boot. But I just don't think they'll buy you that added insurance and cleanliness you'll get with a quality full syn Grp IV/V based oil.

One other thing. Someone please explain this logic of getting a UAO on a particular oil in an engine that returns good UOAs on just about any oil and then claim that this proves this particular oil is the hot stuff.

5W20 and summer heat

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