5w 20 semi vs 15w 40 dino at 8000 ft

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Morelia, Mexico
Hello BITOG,

Long time listener 1st time caller,

In my everlasting quest to find the right answer to my question I find myself once again here. I have searched through these wonderful forums time and time again but, to no avail. The burning question I can't seem to shake is from a personal experience I have had for the past 3 years. Ever since I moved to the central highlands here in Mexico I have maintained an evelation anywhere from 5000ft to 8000ft which I know isn't much but, has caused numorus problems for me and my truck which a 2003 Ford Explorer 4.6 Romeo stock. I start from the begining if u don't mind.

When I first ventured out here to this vast unknown land I came prepared and being the type the goes strictly by the "God Sent" owners manual, after having some bad experiences already before by doing otherwise, I really had no choice. On my trip down here I brought with me 19 quarts of 5w 20 which is what is factory spec'd. I figured it would take me some time before I would find a legitimate point of sale. As I drove down here the trip through the U.S (1,800 miles Pennsylvania to Texas) went without a hitch. Crossing the boarder into Mexico nothing really changed except the roads, it wasn't until I got past Monterrey, Mx that I started to notice something. At 1000ft and climbing the overheated transmission light came on telling me to stop and turn the truck off. Being the believer that I am I quickly obliged. After about an 45 minutes or so I restarted my truck to see that the indicator light had turned off. Seeing that my truck was no longer complaining I got back on the road to continue with my trip. I drove down Mexico 54 through Zacatecas which is almost 8000ft with out a problem but, once I started to climb Los Altos de Jalisco after Zacatecas is where I got the dreaded overheated transmission light once again. Now this was the case for next 15,000 miles anytime I would ascend for more then 30 minutes I would get the overheated transmission light. I did my research trying to figure out what was the problem and first thought that the transmission was to blame. I quickly realized that the transmission was not at fault. The transmissions vacuum is the same as the engines. What I did notice but never thought it would make a difference is that my engine would harder then normal such as revving higher up the RPM band just to get it's momentum going. I completely attributed this to the loss of power at 8000ft (less oxygen) and realized that this is only partly true. It felt as if I had no type of torque what so ever.
So then one day while at Autozone in Uruapan, Mich I see some Lucas Oil Treatment and being the big fan I am of it, decide to try some for old time sake. Well, I'm not too sure which one I bought either the synthetic or non synthetic the results were astounding! I mean as soon as I applied the treatment I immediately noticed an increase in torque. It was like I had gained twice the torque with this stuff. Needless to say I knew that the Lucas Oil Treatment had something to do with this new found power. As returned home and ascended up the road to 8000ft I could feel that my truck was no longer struggling like before. It would pull itself up the road with purpose like never before and wouldn't you believe it, the overheated transmission light has never come back on since! That was about little over 2 years (25,000 miles) ago now and I have used 15w 40 dino ever since that day for that fact it was similar to what 5w 20 and Lucas Oil Treatment would've been if it were an oil (I think?).

It did seem a little difficult to find 5w 20 here in Mexico because most of Mexico uses heavier grade oils but, was available none the less. I do find it interesting how almost this whole country uses this stuff (heavier grade oils). But who I'm I to question this country's established traditions? I mean it worked for me? Now in the case where majority rules I guess this is open and shut case. But something keeps bothering me even after these past 2 years.

And now to the biggest question of my life! Why did this happen? Everybody (including here) says this is not possible! "Higher Viscosity is bad" I have never understood how this happen or why it happen, point is it did HAPPEN and I am living proof.

I am a bit concerned (hence my post) about oil startup and higher viscosities not being particularly healthy for an engine. I have been thinking about using a full synthetic 5w 40 but, worried about it's age and use (103,000 on the clock) carbon deposits, compression and gunk that maybe leftover from the dino oil. And I guess before I get into anything else, I need to find out why switching over to a higher viscosity in my case gave me the described results?

I do appreciate everybody's time in reading my post and hope I come to some type of conclusion and please, any type of theory will be gladly accepted.

Thank you again,

Sincerely,

Testdr2
 
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Is this a twitter and blog site?
That is a tough read!
I gave up.


No, this is not. I've never written or used a blog let alone Twitter.

I do deal in Customer Support all day long though, so sorry about this post being so long.
 
I am still confused on how adding the Lucas to the motor oil affected the ATF? I know the motor can become heat soaked and etc... and a thicker oil will help since it thins out less compared to a thinner oil at a specific temp but how this affects the ATF, idk.

Hopefully someone else may chime in with a reason.
 
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Most importantly, what are your temperature extremes? I lived in Mexico City for over a year with a Lobo (F150) 4.6. I used a 15w40 there just to stop oil from baking to the metal. I used a 5w30 and pulling a 2500 lb trailer on a hot day caused massive lifter noise and oil consumption. If I lived in Minnesota, I would use a 5w20 in that same truck with confidence. At 5000ft to 8000ft, it can get cool though. Once in the flatlands, that heat could take its toll on the Xw20 oils. I was in Chihuahua last year and noticed at the local Pemex, SL oils were everywhere. 5w20 was nowhere to be found. The manual to the Lobo recommended 10w30 to 10w40. I would think a 5w40 would probably suit you the best.
 
If the engine had to rev higher, would the torque converter come out of lock-up and cause the transmission to overheat? What were your rpms after putting in the Lucas as you went up the hills that caused trouble?
 
Thanks to everybody that responded to my post. Just with this alone is more information I've ever gotten even from my home forum ( Explorer Forums ).

And to respond to the questions I will go ahead and quote them to make them easier.

" Most importantly, what are your temperature extremes? "
Year round it ranges anywhere from 88F down to 34F never more, never less.

" I would think a 5w40 would probably suit you the best. "
Even though I been using dino oil all these years?

" Sounds to me like the "Thicker" oil, first with the LUCAS and later with the 15w40 is helping seal your rings a little better... "
Makes sense but, why wouldn't the rings seal like their suppose to from the get
go?

" If the engine had to rev higher, would the torque converter come out of lock-up and cause the transmission to overheat? "
Not too sure if torque converter would come out of lock up but, here is my theory. Since the engine would work harder to compensate for the lost power the transmission would automatically assume that in fact the truck was either towing a trailer or carrying a heavy load and in turn throw hard shifts. I remember as I would ascend the road the shifts would get harder and harder to the point of overheating. And once I applied the "thicker" oil this problem simply disappeared!
 
" Sounds to me like the "Thicker" oil, first with the LUCAS and later with the 15w40 is helping seal your rings a little better... "
Makes sense but, why wouldn't the rings seal like their suppose to from the get
go?

My thinking is based on some experience I have using 15w40 Delvac HDEO in my Camry. First I noticed what little engine noise I had was reduced to the point of being nearly silent. Next I noticed the Delvac seemed to be staying "Cleaner" longer than the dino or syn 5/10w40 or 5/10w30 oils I had been using. And lastly I extended the OCI from 3500 to 4500 miles and kept close tabs on the level since as the oil thins in this high-mileage engine it starts to burn it off. Normally it would have used a quart between 3500 and 4500 but on the 15w40 it didn't burn as much.

So I postulate Diesel oil seems to have certain properties. Something to quiet engine noise - makes sense for a diesel. Something to better seal the rings - again makes sense as the typical diesel static compression ratio is near 20:1 and most gas engines don't go higher than 10.5:1 on pump gas. And lastly the afore mentioned "Better sealing" helped keep the oil from thining and burning off.

Sooooo if all that is correct, the heavier oil may have helped seal your rings giving you less blow-by. That should have helped make more power. On the other side you may have also experienced a small gain in manifold vacuum that would have helped throttle response and engine efficiency. The engine would in theory be running cooler (assuming the thermostat is wide open) so the trans fluid could shed more heat. All this makes giant assumptions and can only be viewed in very marginal conditions.

Of course opinions vary, most stink and all this thinking is based on guess work. But from 3000 miles away its all I have!
grin.gif
I guess in the end if it works, why argue? Like the old joke goes: (In a bar, of course)
Steve: I don't understand women.
Dave: So? You understand how tv works?
Steve: No, but...
Dave: Then what's the problem?

No hate mail please - it's just a joke!
 
Here is an alternative suggestion/scenario. Your vehicle may have a driver adaptive transmission(not too uncommon for your year), and many SUVs have a transmission oil cooler. If your vehicle has both of these features, it may have "relearned" its new environment and elevation demands after the second time the tranny overheated and now it starts cooling quicker to not let the temp get out of control.

If your vehicle does not have either of these features, there goes my theory. I have to say I'm skeptical of the oil fixing the problem
 
Originally Posted By: RiotGrip
Here is an alternative suggestion/scenario. Your vehicle may have a driver adaptive transmission(not too uncommon for your year), and many SUVs have a transmission oil cooler. If your vehicle has both of these features, it may have "relearned" its new environment and elevation demands after the second time the tranny overheated and now it starts cooling quicker to not let the temp get out of control.

If your vehicle does not have either of these features, there goes my theory. I have to say I'm skeptical of the oil fixing the problem


Well, after reading your post more carefully I guess this went on a little too long for my theory to be completely correct, I would think a transmission would adapt a bit quicker than 150000 miles.
 
Switch back to a 5w20 and see if situation repeats.

If you want to learn more, install oil PSI/temp gauges.
 
Originally Posted By: RiotGrip
If your vehicle does not have either of these features, there goes my theory. I have to say I'm skeptical of the oil fixing the problem


Once I added the "thicker oil" the change was that drastic! I mean... I know that the thicker oil had nothing to do with transmission physically but, it did improve the engines performance so much to the point that transmission would no longer overheat. Why? Well... because the engine had recouped the power that had been lost while using the 5w 20 in that climate. The more I read about the responses here the more I'm leaning to the side of oil pressure having something to do with this!
 
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