4 Ball Test...

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I see that M1 is held in very high regard here, but it doesnt fare well, along with Castrol in the Amzoil 4 ball test. Looking at that report, Valvolene and Penn. should be the top non Amzoil choice. Any reason why this test doesnt weigh in heavily in decision making?
 
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1bioguy

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Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
(because it doesn't relate to real world engine wear) + one
Why? Seems like it would, pressure/friction etc. Can you expound?
 
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Originally Posted By: 1bioguy
Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
(because it doesn't relate to real world engine wear) + one
Why? Seems like it would, pressure/friction etc. Can you expound?
Buster nailed it in his post from 2009:
Originally Posted By: buster
This has been addressed a billion times. Noria had a good write up about it and essentially it's used as a screening test for additives. Has poor correlation to real world engine testing. Oils have to go through sophisticated, controlled engine sequence testing to prove their wear capabilities.
Quote:
"The 4-ball test (ASTM D4172) is often used as a screening test for many different lubricant types that contain antiwear additives or similar base oil properties. Other tribo-mechanical bench tests are often used as well, including the Timken Test (ASTM D2782) and the Pin and V-Block (ASTM D2670). Because engines have different contact geometry, loads, metallurgy and speeds, numerous bench tests and test protocols are needed. It is not uncommon for several oils to be tested using two such methods and to find that the performance rankings between the oils to reverse (no correlation). This is why, among other reasons, Passenger Car Motor Oils and Heavy Duty Oils (diesel crankcase) are tested in actual engines using controlled methods such as ASTM D5533 Sequence IIIE and D5302 Sequence VE. Jim Fitch, Noria Corporation"
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: 1bioguy
I see that M1 is held in very high regard here, but it doesnt fare well, along with Castrol in the Amzoil 4 ball test. Looking at that report, Valvolene and Penn. should be the top non Amzoil choice. Any reason why this test doesnt weigh in heavily in decision making?
I have stated this before (I couldn't find it) but here goes (I actually did this test back around the 2002 time frame): I took a 30 weight mineral with no additives and tested it for the four-ball wear scar and it showed 0.58mm. I took a 30 weight mineral oil and added 300 ppm of ZDDP (no other additives) and it tested for a 0.45mm wear scar. Don't be impressed by wear scar numbers and what Buster posted is correct. There are many four-ball wear tests and they are primarily used in the lab to test base oil and additive combinations. One of the four-ball tests is the friction coefficient test which to me is one of the more important tests.
 
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1bioguy

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Excellent, thanks all. It helps when Im staring at the shelf. Now on to the Gold Bond two ball test........
 
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mobil I except the extended performance oil is just another fake synthetic group III, how much PAO group IV is in the extended performance oil is anyones guess
 
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Originally Posted By: benjy
mobil I except the extended performance oil is just another fake synthetic group III, how much PAO group IV is in the extended performance oil is anyones guess
PAO alone does not a great oil make. And similarly, you don't necessarily need PAO to make a great oil.
 
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Originally Posted By: benjy
mobil I except the extended performance oil is just another fake synthetic group III, how much PAO group IV is in the extended performance oil is anyones guess
Sorry, but most of your post is wrong. Before making statements like you did, I would advise you really looking into the subject more carefully.
 

OVERKILL

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Originally Posted By: 1bioguy
Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
(because it doesn't relate to real world engine wear) + one
Why? Seems like it would, pressure/friction etc. Can you expound?
I believe the specific sequence used by AMSOIL is a test for gear lube. There are a plethora of tests more appropriate for engine lubes and they are conveniently used for just that purpose wink
 
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The test is absolutely valid if you're running your car engine oil at room temperature only with no circulation or pressure and the only bearings are round balls or rollers in direct opposition with each other. If your circumstances are different then this test may not be of much use in choosing an oil for your vehicle. Instead you could log on to www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums and do a little research. It's not as if there are not some very good choices for almost any vehicle.
 
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Originally Posted By: 1bioguy
Excellent, thanks all. It helps when Im staring at the shelf. Now on to the Gold Bond two ball test........
LOL....
 
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The 4-Ball wear test is an excellent and valid test method for developing a lubricant for the 4-Ball wear machine. If you want to develop a lubricant for an internal combustion engine, use internal combustion engine tests. Tom NJ
 
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Originally Posted By: 1bioguy
Excellent, thanks all. It helps when Im staring at the shelf. Now on to the Gold Bond two ball test........
It passed.
 
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Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
The 4-Ball wear test is an excellent and valid test method for developing a lubricant for the 4-Ball wear machine. If you want to develop a lubricant for an internal combustion engine, use internal combustion engine tests. Tom NJ
approved
 
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Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
The 4-Ball wear test is an excellent and valid test method for developing a lubricant for the 4-Ball wear machine. If you want to develop a lubricant for an internal combustion engine, use internal combustion engine tests. Tom NJ
Yes sir! Still one boutique oil company uses it to sell their goods, and people buy into it as if passing that test means the oil is going to add extra life to their ride.-AD
 
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