3MZ-FE engines "hard on oil"?

[paulri]

I come across this phrase a lot when I read threads talking about cars with my engine (both of the vehicles in my sig have it). No, it is not the sludge monster (that was the 1MZ). I'm not complaining about it--both of these engines have been fairly reliable so far. Its just that I've just realized that the OEM recommendation is 5K, even with synthetic (after a few years here, I weaned myself off of short OCIs and this last year, gave my cars a 7K OCI with full synthetic), so I'm wondering how far I want to take these without a UOA. I read this phrase from people here, and it makes me wonder.

So far, I have only seen the following UOAs here from this engine:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4323485/Re:_Citgo_SuperGard_5W-20,_500

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/239770/Re:_Valvoline_5w30,_4840mi,_20

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...:_QS_Defy_5w20_API_SL_2004_E#Post4631976

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2450514/1

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=804475

Now one of them ran the TBN down to 0.0 (that was confirmed in the thread) in less than 5000 miles; there were two others with abnormal lead readings, but both had high silicon levels also, so I don't think that should be held against the engine itself.

Are there other UOAs for this engine that anyone has?

More to the point, is this engine hard on oil, and if so, in what way?

 

[Revving2Redline]

Toyota has a known thing to be hard on oil .Seems their awesome mpg has a price. I change my RX350 Lexus at 6k always w QSUD 5w30 and left over Archoil 9100.

 

[clinebarger]

I don't see how the MZ engine is hard on oil, No timing components to oil other than the jack-shaft timing gears that are very similar to the VZ series of V6 engines that the MZ replaced.

With the complex baffling in the valve covers along with .060" holes.....It's no wonder the early 1MZ's can have crankcase ventilation problems.

The later iterations of the 1MZ got the crankcase ventilation updates first and were carried over to the 3MZ.

My 2003 Lexus ES300 1MZ-FE has the plastic intake & a Threaded PCV valve just like a 3MZ. I converted the 1MZ-FE in the 2000 Avalon to the Late valve covers & threaded PCV valve with a 2002 JDM engine install.

Have your own UOA done, I imagine you will see different results!

 

[clinebarger]

Originally Posted by Marco620
Toyota has a known thing to be hard on oil .Seems their awesome mpg has a price. I change my RX350 Lexus at 6k always w QSUD 5w30 and left over Archoil 9100.


The GR & MZ share nothing in common beside them both being 60° DOHC V6's.

 

[UncleDave]

I don't see it either.

Especially on the milder hybrid versions like the Hi-Hy and 400H that dont make a lot of hp/ ci anyway.

Belt driven valve train is devoid of chains and associated sprockets with really only the cam gears chewing up the oil, nor does it have a DI pump squeezing the oil and the cvt drivetrain keeps the revs down on long trips.

I have never bothered to get at UOA and Ive gone out to 10K plus on a variety of group 3 and 3+ oils and its still gold when I dump resetting the factory 3K dump light 3 times on the same sump.

My 06 has got all the marker of still being factory tight so I won't even bother to leak it down until it starts to consume oil or see the mileage vary but at 130K (which isnt a lot) its still getting exactly the same MPG as new.


UD

 

[supton]

For some reason the 3.0 V6 has been known as a sludger. I think it's because Toyota lengthened OCI's out at that time on conventional oil; presumably many Toyota drivers then let that OCI go out much longer. Bad things then happened.

My 5S-FE is supposedly hard on oil too; there is a set of gears on the camshafts which might not help. But a few years prior Toyota omitted the oil cooler for some reason. So it became known as "hard" on oil. I don't know what the truth is. Other than oil is cheap, and it's a small cost in my budget. So I stick with nice conservative 5k OCI's on my 5S-FE, it's a nice number to do tire rotations at also (which this car needs as it's hard on tires).

 

[tcp71]

Remember, that engine was specified to use 5w30 when it came out. It received the back spec to 5w20 much later. I would think A stout 5w or 10w30 works fine.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Maybe old retiree's not changing their oil?

Im becoming of the opinion that any engine putting out over 70 bhp/litre needs a good syn oil.
and over 85 bhp/litre needs a real syn oil.

 

[paulri]

I'm not a car guy, so be patient with me here--if you mean horsepower divided by size, the 230 hp of the 3mz in the Sienna & Highlander, from 3.3 liters, gives 69.7--pretty much on the cusp of your calculation.


Originally Posted by ARCOgraphite
Maybe old retiree's not changing their oil?

Im becoming of the opinion that any engine putting out over 70 bhp/litre needs a good syn oil.
and over 85 bhp/litre needs a real syn oil.

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Originally Posted by paulri
I come across this phrase a lot when I read threads talking about cars with my engine (both of the vehicles in my sig have it). No, it is not the sludge monster (that was the 1MZ). I'm not complaining about it--both of these engines have been fairly reliable so far. Its just that I've just realized that the OEM recommendation is 5K, even with synthetic (after a few years here, I weaned myself off of short OCIs and this last year, gave my cars a 7K OCI with full synthetic), so I'm wondering how far I want to take these without a UOA. I read this phrase from people here, and it makes me wonder.

So far, I have only seen the following UOAs here from this engine:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4323485/Re:_Citgo_SuperGard_5W-20,_500

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/239770/Re:_Valvoline_5w30,_4840mi,_20

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/foru...:_QS_Defy_5w20_API_SL_2004_E#Post4631976

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2450514/1

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=804475

Now one of them ran the TBN down to 0.0 (that was confirmed in the thread) in less than 5000 miles; there were two others with abnormal lead readings, but both had high silicon levels also, so I don't think that should be held against the engine itself.

Are there other UOAs for this engine that anyone has?

More to the point, is this engine hard on oil, and if so, in what way?


It's not hard on oil. The QS Defy you posted is my report and has multiple other reports (like 5) all on the same UOA sheet including a 10,000 mile run with TBN in reserve.

 

[paulri]

Are you the one who ran SAE 30 in his Toyota/Lexus, or am I thinking about someone else? There were several UOA results on that page, all of them good IIRC.


Originally Posted by FlyNavyP3
It's not hard on oil. The QS Defy you posted is my report and has multiple other reports (like 5) all on the same UOA sheet including a 10,000 mile run with TBN in reserve.

 

[paulri]

Never mind, I read the thread that I linked to. That was what I was thinking of--SAE 30, 20w50, as well as the good ol' 5w30 in that engine---and all of those oils gave the same great wear metal readings in those reports.

Originally Posted by paulri
Are you the one who ran SAE 30 in his Toyota/Lexus, or am I thinking about someone else? There were several UOA results on that page, all of them good IIRC.

 

[FlyNavyP3]

Originally Posted by paulri
Never mind, I read the thread that I linked to. That was what I was thinking of--SAE 30, 20w50, as well as the good ol' 5w30 in that engine---and all of those oils gave the same great wear metal readings in those reports.

Originally Posted by paulri
Are you the one who ran SAE 30 in his Toyota/Lexus, or am I thinking about someone else? There were several UOA results on that page, all of them good IIRC.



Correct, I tried 5w20, 5w30, SAE 30, 10w40, 20w50 and mixes of those in this engine with only minimal changes noted regardless of viscosity. On a ppm per mile basis 5w30 at 10k was one of the best. If you search my posts I posted all the UOA I performed on this car. Of note conventional vs synthetic at 5k OCI provided no meaningful difference in protection. This is just a great engine, quiet, smooth, easy on oil and for the nearly 200k it served our family, dauntless and trouble free.