350 shivvy . 472K! I saw it myself.

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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny: Yes they can and sometimes the truth is hard to believe. He could have probably gotten the same results using Castrol, Valvoline, Chevron, and others. Good service habits are hard to beat. I'm happy, another happy consumer. [Happy] [Happy] [Happy] [Happy] [Cheers!]
Johnny, my Dad's 4.3L Blazer has had nothing but pennzoil bulk 5w-30 and Fram filters since birth, and at 130,000 miles, when the intake was opened to replace the gasket, it was perfectly clean; no varnish or sludge at all. After the intake gasket was replaced, it now doesn't lose a drop of oil between 3,000 mile changes. [Cheers!] It's had a full checkup on a scope machine, and compresion was sales lot new along with everything else.
 
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I have 5.7L TBI engine in a Caprice wagon. At 100K miles, it is almost like new. the last engine was ok too, at 168,000 miles when I accidently blew it by damaging the oil filter. I don't think it makes any difference what oil you use. Viscosity maybe?
 
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quote:
Originally posted by buster:
quote:
I bet the UOAs on that truck are horrible , but still mangaed over 400k miles. Toyotas last, but so do Chevys.....
Completely agree. A domestic V8 will last just as long as any foreign engine, even if it shows high wear. It's the nature of GM engines to do so but it doesn't mean it's not going to last. I think most of us have come to realize that UOA's are great tools to see what is going on, but from a wear perspective, it's not something you want to be too concerned about. IMO. The 350Chevy will last a long, long time. There is even a guy with a C5 that has 300K on it with M1, which doesnt always show the best wear in that engine!! My gradfather always bought Crown Victorias (like all old people) and those engines ran and ran and ran. I think he put a few 100k on them and this is with the 5.0L I believe. [Smile]

You can still pay attention to wear, just look for consitency. I bet that 350 has consistant uoas.
 
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Only 195,500 miles on my Chvey Impala SS with the 5.7L LT1 V8. I wanted to put 350k on it before a rebuild. Maybe I should revise that figure upward! At 195.5k, it is just broken in good. No Frams, just the OEM AC Delco PF 52 filter and Valvoline 10w/30. A lot of credit for higher mileage needs to go to fuel injection. By metering the proper amount of gas in any and all conditions, it doesn't dilute the oil with gas like the carbureted engines did. This is especially true in cold starts and cold conditions.
 
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quote:
buster: Who you calling old I love Crown Vics. Great big old heavy smooth riding cars. Maybe I am old
[Big Grin] My dad who is 50 just bought the sport model. It's basically the same as the Marauder only 16valves though vs 32V for the Maruauder. Same wheels suspension and everything. It's a very smooth car and for the money it's a great bargain. He went from a Jeep to this. I think domestic V8's are fine. Just bc the UOA's show high wear is meaningless to me. They last and people have proven it. [Cheers!]
 
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My last truck was '91 Chev with the 350 TBI, best truck I've ever owned, sold it with almost 200K miles, still ran great and burned no oil. A much better engine than the tritan V8 in my new Ford.
 

DJ

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My Dad had a 85 GMC with 350 the odo. he bought it with 135K in 92 proceded to role the Odo. one more time before it broke at 240K. He was driving it for a few more years after that I think until '02 we guestimated well over 300K, him maintanance pratices are poor to say the least and it showed, but it still got him to work ran a trapline(logging trails [Eek!] ) and hauled firewood, heck he beat it so hard he snapped the frame once. My 96 Caprice came with a 4.3l V8, not a typo just a smaller bore and stroke LT1, I yanked it at 110K in favor of a LT1. When I tore the thing down there was crosshatch in all cylinders it was in such good shape and I had not treated it well because I knew I was going to replace it.
 
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That is great that a very very small number of Domestic V8's last a long time. I doubt any one would argue that point! I think what is in question is what is the norm for these power trains not the exceptions. It is not the norm for any one with a GM powertrain to hit 300,000-400,000 as a matter of normalicy if it was then these numbers would be meaningless to use. THeir is absolutely no reason under the sun that all engines and transmissions under moderate use should not hit 200,000-300,000 miles as a matter of routine but I am sure we all know that this does not routinely happen. THeir is no reason that the automotic transmission should not hit 200,000-300,000 with no problems at all. Once again we all know that this is not the case! Just as important is how many starters, alternators, water pumps, gasket set, power steering pumps, window regulators, HVAC control heads, sealed hubs, rotors and transmission they have gone through in that 300,000 miles! Now of us can corralate a given PPM of wear with a millage life expectancy for a power train! I think it is preety silly though for someone not to at least acknoldge that greater wear metals PPM in a UOA indicates greater wear! Once you acknoldge that greater wear metal PPM in UOA indicates greater wear then lower PPM of wear metal must indicate lower wear! If low wear is good wich it is in my book then any company produceing engines that consistently produce low PPM of wear metal in UOA would be an improvement! I once bought a FOrd Tempo that nickled and dimed me to death. I cared for that car just as well as any other I have ever owned. It is the only car I have ever owned that was DOA at 100,000 miles. It is the only car or truck that I have owned that I had to rebuild the engine at 50,000 miles on. WIth all of this said I never felt the need to lie to myself to justify my rotten purchase decission. I never felt the need to feel good about buying the thing. It was what it was and I do not feel like any less of a man for haveing bough a lemon! If changeing the oil every 3000 miles was all it took to get an engine that lasts 475,XXX miles then the aftermarket engine business would fold and the new car industry would collapse as well! From 1971 to 2004 my Family has only had to take Toyota to the dealership twice for work and both times the repairs were under warranty. Once for a transmission input seal leak on my Dads 1995 Tacoma and once for my Mom's 2003 Tundra front axle shift interloc solinoid/actuator. Both vechiles were made here in America. I do not think we have ever traded or sold a vechile with less then 200,000 miles on it. We have never had to do anything other then routine maintence ie oil, filters, O2 senor, brakes. 60% of my friends also owned Toyotas and had the same experince as me. On the other hand me my 2001 Dakota as much as I loved it had to go to the dealership not less then 6 times for recalls. In addition to the recalls had to take it in for fuel cap failure and my evap/purge lines kept craking. I also had to take it in for alinment issues in the first 12,000 miles and it would get out of alingment about every 6000 miles. A guy I work with has had his GMC in the shop for warranty work about 30 times not counting TSB's.His engine started knocking at 26,000 miles. Turns out their is a TSB explaining this. The factory installed the wrong bearings on his mains. The dealer claimed that the knoc was just piston slap and did not affect durability. We did not find the TSB until it was out of warranty.He has around 50,000 miles and his truck sounds like a diesel at start up. His 2000 Venture Van is a rattle trap and will die for an unknown reason all the time. He has had it to the dealer alot and they can not figure it out. The passanger side window regulator does not work either. He is trying to sell it. It has around 20,000 miles on it. Know he has to replace his water pump and idler pulley. He changes his oil every 3000 with 5W30 Quaker State Peak Performance. He changes his trany fluid every year with QS Dex III. I have another friend from work with Malibu that had to have the intake manifold and gaskets changed 3-4 times under warranty due to coolant leaks. Luckily he purchased the extended 100,000 mile warranty. Another friend's husband just bought an Avalanch(sp) that is a year old. He hopped up on the tail gate to unload some cargo and the tail gate collapsed. It was rusted through from the inside. I gurantee that for every exception their is 1000 stories like the ones above. Right now 10,000 I4 and I5 Canyon and COlorado engines are being sent back to the plant to be reworked. They went out to be installed at the production facility and they found out that none of the engines would run. THey mixed up the I4 and I5 ignition modules and they are not sure what else might have been mixed up. So 10,000 units are being reworked. I saw the converted area that is to be used so far they had 4 stations set up. Last year their was the tensioner problem with the I6 Vortec 4200. They installed the timeing chain tensioner backwards. Then you have the o-ring on the Gen III oil pick up tube problems.......... The list goes on and on. If your engine and transmission doe not last 200,000-300,000 with out major power train issues then the company that built it has failed you unless you have abused it! If most of the cars other parts do not last at least as long then the same is true. I am going to guess that TS see's more UOA then most of us. THe expections are not the rule and that is what we should be concerned with!
 
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I'll say this about big GM midsize "boats"; they can take a whollup of an accident. My mom accidently hit a parked car going about 55 mph several years ago in an Olds 88. Apparently, there was a freakin cow that was loose on the road; the guy she nailed actually hit the curb from rubbernecking and blew a tire; there was a cop trying to corall the cow! My mom did the exact same thing, only she hit the guy instead of the curb. Walked away scot free; the car was SMASHED!!!!!!!!!!!! I seriously doubt a little Camry or something could take a hit that hard and allow the driver to walk away without a scratch. Lord knows my Corolla would have looked like folded paper.
 
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quote:
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: . Another friend's husband just bought an Avalanch(sp) that is a year old. He hopped up on the tail gate to unload some cargo and the tail gate collapsed. It was rusted through from the inside.
That is funny considering that the tail gate is a plastic composit high strength material and if the inside is metal you could soak in in salt water 24/7 and it would take way over a year to rust through. All this could be said about Toyota as well! I wonder how many time they had to rework engines and such and we just never found out about it. My dad's early 90's Civic was recalled several times and he said he would never buy Honda again. Well he tried Honda again in 2002 and what happened then, 3 transmissions under 10,000 miles! My sisters 89 Preylude left her stranded several times in it's 60,000 mile life before a pistin broke off inside and it was dealer maintained. No more Honda for our family, we all have GM now and except for the LS1 not any problems what so ever and that is between 8 or so cars and trucks. It all who you talk to, You don't like GM but millions do and keep buying them over and over and over so some folks are happy.
 
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As far as the metal rusting I should explain a little. I have done lots of work with carbon steel making knives/cutlery and some kitchen knives(yes, lots of kitchen knives are carbon steel) are about the same stock as sheet metal and in salt tests they form a pitina that slows the rust if neglected and I have seen this in cars as well. That is what I called BS on this one as there is not enough time for this to happen.
 
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I have a 99 camry. 78 thousand miles and counting. Over 5000 in repairs and counting. 9 recalls IIRC, and alignment must be reset every 6 months. Doesn't like to start in cold weather, and the dealer doesn't know why. Pulls to the right, and severe noise from the suspension, and the dealer doesn't know why. 98 gmc sierra. 67000 miles and counting. Weatherstripping on rear slider failed at 30000 miles......repaired under warranty. No recalls since purchased. Just because you buy a toyota, does not mean that you will not have problems, and just because you buy GM, doesn't mean you will have problems. [Razz] And no toyota owner should ever dare say a word about rust on another make. [Roll Eyes] [ January 31, 2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
 
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JB, You are blinded and in full denial mode. Don't be no hater! If it was a Toyota, you'd be running all over the place butt naked.....but it's a Chevy. Now, despite Patman's very long thread where people posted vehicles with mileages above 250k, you still maintain the claim this is a small minority. Alrighty then.....don't buy GM or American for that matter! It makes no difference to me and most likely the rest of the world.
 

tpi

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quote:
Originally posted by Jim Spahr: By metering the proper amount of gas in any and all conditions, it doesn't dilute the oil with gas like the carbureted engines did. This is especially true in cold starts and cold conditions.
Part of this is the way the oil dilution occurred. The excessive fuel would condense on the intake manifold and trickle into the cylinders. Additional fuel would condense on the cold cylinder walls. This would temporarily wash all the oil off the cylinder walls leading to excessive wear. The bore washed cylinders would accumulate excessive taper-I've seen some old auto choke engines with .025" lip in the bore. Imprecise or defective auto chokes were the culprits. Today's engines require cold start enrichment to replace fuel which condenses out. But the enrichment is far more precicise and the cylinder to cylinder distribution is more accurate.
 

tpi

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I've owned three trouble free Toyotas including an '04 Camry, currently own a 100K mile Ford PSD pickup, a 100K mile Jeep 2.5, and once owned a TBI Chevy 350 pickup. They have all been outstanding vehicles requiring little or no work. The Toyota Corolla needed a starter solenoid contact replaced as the only repair in 150000 miles. The new Camry has been excellent; burns very little oil (M1 10-30), very quiet, smooth, 30 MPG. I bought it for comfort and low operating cost per mile. The 1999 Ford F250 diesel has needed no repairs in 100K miles, but the brake rotors are due. Very nice truck, no rattles and engine runs as new. Use Delo 400, burns quart per 5000 miles. Cold AC. The 1995 Jeep Wrangler is also in excellent condition, the only repair was to replace noisy catalytic converter. All original engine, driveline. Burns about half quart Delo 400 per 4000 miles. The 1992 Chevy 350 pickup needed an EGR valve and waterpump in 150000 miles. Used Mobil 1, burned about a quart per 6000 miles. It is now up to 200000 miles and has only needed a clutch and speed sensor. AC still cold. I see a ton of these early 90's trucks with high mileage. They are the rule, not the exception. They are relatively easy to maintain and service, which should keep them running a long time. Many vehicles reach their demise because of owner disinterest and lack of care. [ February 01, 2004, 03:13 AM: Message edited by: tpi ]
 
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quote:
Originally posted by jc1990: ill be happy to get 100k out of my 90 351windsor these engines are nothing compared to a 350 and very underpowered to
What are you talking about?? The 351W is an excellent motor, much better than the 302 IMO. More torque. It is the perfect blend between performance and fuel economy. Once you get into the big blocks you better not drive too far from a gas station! Goto ford-trucks.com there is several 351W V8's with over 200k miles on them. They aren't as reliable as the 300 I-6, or torquey, but enough to get you moving when in haste. [ February 01, 2004, 11:59 AM: Message edited by: rugerman1 ]
 
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The only engine i would trade it in for is a 351C (Cleveland), they have more horsepower. But theres plenty of aftermarket goodies available for our 351W so getting a 351C is pointless. With just 260H Cam's keeping everything else stock will yeild a huge increase in torque! (about 50ft/lbs)
 
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My buddy has a 351 in his 89 F150 and it seems to be solid at over 160,000 miles. I like a SBC 350 better but the Ford is a good engine too.
 
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