Slant 6 was a bullet proof engine but that's a very old engine.
3.6L Chrysler PentaStar V6 Assembly Part 2 Video
- Thread starter StevieC
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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
'Twas the Germans who ran them into the ground. Can't say I agree with you there Steve.
Really? Chrysler ran themselves into the ground in the 70's and was on that path when Daimler scooped them up. Telling that the "best" they offer are basically Mercedes designs. It's been rumored that even the Pentastar is a Mercedes design...
'Twas the Germans who ran them into the ground. Can't say I agree with you there Steve.
Really? Chrysler ran themselves into the ground in the 70's and was on that path when Daimler scooped them up. Telling that the "best" they offer are basically Mercedes designs. It's been rumored that even the Pentastar is a Mercedes design...
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
'Twas the Germans who ran them into the ground. Can't say I agree with you there Steve.
Really? Chrysler ran themselves into the ground in the 70's and was on that path when Daimler scooped them up. Telling that the "best" they offer are basically Mercedes designs. It's been rumored that even the Pentastar is a Mercedes design...
Chrysler was full of cash that Mercedes needed to get their hands on. In 1998, Chrysler was on fire. Their minivans, pickups and Grand Cherokees were hot sellers and cash cows.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
'Twas the Germans who ran them into the ground. Can't say I agree with you there Steve.
Really? Chrysler ran themselves into the ground in the 70's and was on that path when Daimler scooped them up. Telling that the "best" they offer are basically Mercedes designs. It's been rumored that even the Pentastar is a Mercedes design...
Chrysler was full of cash that Mercedes needed to get their hands on. In 1998, Chrysler was on fire. Their minivans, pickups and Grand Cherokees were hot sellers and cash cows.
I had a Grand Cherokee as a company car and really enjoyed it but every 3 years I have to get a new vehicle.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Chrysler was full of cash that Mercedes needed to get their hands on. In 1998, Chrysler was on fire. Their minivans, pickups and Grand Cherokees were hot sellers and cash cows.
Funny, it was Daimler that bought Chrysler, not the other way around. The Minivans were peaking and declining, the Pickups never sold well (compared to Ford and Chevy), JGC's were outsold and outclassed by Explorer and Blazers, and they were milking ancient designs for all they were worth. With or without Daimer it was "Peak Chrysler".
Chrysler was full of cash that Mercedes needed to get their hands on. In 1998, Chrysler was on fire. Their minivans, pickups and Grand Cherokees were hot sellers and cash cows.
Funny, it was Daimler that bought Chrysler, not the other way around. The Minivans were peaking and declining, the Pickups never sold well (compared to Ford and Chevy), JGC's were outsold and outclassed by Explorer and Blazers, and they were milking ancient designs for all they were worth. With or without Daimer it was "Peak Chrysler".
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
'Twas the Germans who ran them into the ground. Can't say I agree with you there Steve.
Really? Chrysler ran themselves into the ground in the 70's and was on that path when Daimler scooped them up. Telling that the "best" they offer are basically Mercedes designs. It's been rumored that even the Pentastar is a Mercedes design...
Geeze man, how many websites are you on, spouting your dislike for Chrysler, Mopar, FCA? You remind of a 12 year old telling his friends that his dad can beat up their dad.
Having worked on them all, and having friends that still do, Ford has and continues to produce plenty of lemons.
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
'Twas the Germans who ran them into the ground. Can't say I agree with you there Steve.
Really? Chrysler ran themselves into the ground in the 70's and was on that path when Daimler scooped them up. Telling that the "best" they offer are basically Mercedes designs. It's been rumored that even the Pentastar is a Mercedes design...
Geeze man, how many websites are you on, spouting your dislike for Chrysler, Mopar, FCA? You remind of a 12 year old telling his friends that his dad can beat up their dad.
Having worked on them all, and having friends that still do, Ford has and continues to produce plenty of lemons.
“Chrysler was full of cash that Mercedes needed to get their hands on. In 1998, Chrysler was on fire. Their minivans, pickups and Grand Cherokees were hot sellers and cash cows.”
Yep. Daimler made off like bandits on that deal. Cerberus accelerated the spiral and then came the Financial Crisis of 2008. The US Govt forced that shotgun marriage of Chrysler and Fiat and the end was near. Fiat has been searching for a buyer to get out of the deal but nobody will touch it now.
Chrysler has been at the edge of the abyss for a while now. You see it in the faces of their workers. Compare these videos to a Japanese auto/ engine assembly plant and it is a total 180 degrees turnabout.
For example; white uniforms with caps. Making sure the job is correct, and pride in assembling instead of moving blocks around and shoving internals in with blank expressions.
https://youtu.be/e5etOB0w8l0
Yep. Daimler made off like bandits on that deal. Cerberus accelerated the spiral and then came the Financial Crisis of 2008. The US Govt forced that shotgun marriage of Chrysler and Fiat and the end was near. Fiat has been searching for a buyer to get out of the deal but nobody will touch it now.
Chrysler has been at the edge of the abyss for a while now. You see it in the faces of their workers. Compare these videos to a Japanese auto/ engine assembly plant and it is a total 180 degrees turnabout.
For example; white uniforms with caps. Making sure the job is correct, and pride in assembling instead of moving blocks around and shoving internals in with blank expressions.
https://youtu.be/e5etOB0w8l0
Our 2004 grand Cherokee limited went 230000 miles with 3 repairs. Traded in last year. One of the mechanics bought it for his daughter to commute to college. Still running. 07 1500 went 140000 before I traded it, needed the water pump replaced. No other issues. Nothing but Jeep's and rams in our driveway since the nineties.
Our 2004 grand Cherokee limited went 230000 miles with 3 repairs. Traded in last year. One of the mechanics bought it for his daughter to commute to college. Still running. 07 1500 went 140000 before I traded it, needed the water pump replaced. No other issues. Nothing but Jeep's and rams in our driveway since the nineties.
The pstar engine has been great in our 15 wrangler. The 3.2 pstar in our 16 Cherokee has also been great.
The pstar engine has been great in our 15 wrangler. The 3.2 pstar in our 16 Cherokee has also been great.
We have an 08 Liberty and a 2016 Rubicon, both have been trouble free. If things go as planned a new Grand Cherokee will be occupying space in my garage in the not so distant future.
I've got an 08 Rubicon with the 3.8 with 118k on it. It uses oil, but runs like new, and oddly it has seen drastically reduced consumption the last 2k miles. Anyway, it has been an outstanding vehicle and very reliable. The engine is nothing to write home about, but the thing is unstoppable off road and the engine is smooth and quiet.
I've ordered a new 2018 JL Wrangler Rubicon 4 door with the 3.6 and 6 speed manual. The old JK isn't going anwhere, though. I'm keeping it until the wheels fall off. It has a zero deductible lifetime powertrain warranty, and the entie Jeep is in excellent shape, in spite of lots of winter driving and off roading from the east coast to Moab, Utah, and everywhere in between.
I'm looking forward to the updated 3.6 and new manual transmission. We don't know yet which transmission it will be, other than it won't be the NSG370 that is in my JK. I'm hoping for a Tremec. I've driven a few Pentastars in cars and Jeeps and have always really liked them.
Anyway, this will be my 3rd Jeep. My first was a 93 YJ 2.5 4cyl/5 speed. I ran it for about 130k and 10 years, and it was a great vehicle, too, with 100% reliability. That old 2.5 was like a tractor motor. I wish I still had that Jeep.
Interestingly, the new JL 3.6 is supposed to run on 0w20 oil. I'll likely make it Mobil 1 EP, after the break-in.
I've ordered a new 2018 JL Wrangler Rubicon 4 door with the 3.6 and 6 speed manual. The old JK isn't going anwhere, though. I'm keeping it until the wheels fall off. It has a zero deductible lifetime powertrain warranty, and the entie Jeep is in excellent shape, in spite of lots of winter driving and off roading from the east coast to Moab, Utah, and everywhere in between.
I'm looking forward to the updated 3.6 and new manual transmission. We don't know yet which transmission it will be, other than it won't be the NSG370 that is in my JK. I'm hoping for a Tremec. I've driven a few Pentastars in cars and Jeeps and have always really liked them.
Anyway, this will be my 3rd Jeep. My first was a 93 YJ 2.5 4cyl/5 speed. I ran it for about 130k and 10 years, and it was a great vehicle, too, with 100% reliability. That old 2.5 was like a tractor motor. I wish I still had that Jeep.
Interestingly, the new JL 3.6 is supposed to run on 0w20 oil. I'll likely make it Mobil 1 EP, after the break-in.
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Some were the Mitsu's but you also had some of the Chrysler engines as well. Then there was the sludger 2.7L's
I honestly don't remember any of the Chrysler-branded ones being bad for oil burning
But yes, there was that sludge beauty of a 2.7L!
The minivans with the dying tranmissions and smoking Mitsubishi 3.0L's in them were a nightmare combo that definitely gave those vans a reputation!
Although it says Chrysler it's actually a Mitsu. It would have been a great engine if Chrysler listened to Mitsubishi and went with proper valve seals. They had this same engine variation in Mitsu branded cars with proper valve seals and it didn't burn oil.
That's the notorious 3.0L
Curious about this "proper valve seals" comment, since oil consumption in Chrysler products had never been an issue and wasn't an issue with any of the Chrysler designed engines. Did the Mitsubishi engine require exotic valve seals in order to not become a mosquito fogger?
The Wiki on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_6G7_engine
States:
Quote:
The 6G72 was manufactured in three different models which featured SOHC with 12-valves, SOHC with 24-valve, and DOHC with 24-valves.
The latest version was used in the Mitsubishi Eclipse GT and Galant. Output in 2004 was 210 hp (157 kW; 213 PS) at 5500 rpm with 278 N·m (205 lbf·ft) of torque at 4000 rpm. In the older version, used in many Chrysler models since 1987 this V6 was a SOHC 12-valve developing 141 hp (105 kW) at 5000 rpm and 172 lb·ft (233 N·m) of torque at 3600 rpm. The Mitsubishi models were with a 3.0 Litre 6G72 engine SOHC 24-valve developing 195 hp (145 kW) at 5000 rpm and 205 lb·ft (278 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm.For the MIVEC engine output is 201 kW (273 PS; 270 hp) at 6000 and 304 N·m (224 lbf·ft) at 4500.
The SOHC 12-valve for the second generation of Pajero can provide 109 kW and 235N·m,the SOHC 24-valve can provide 133 kW and 255N·m.
The DOHC 24-Valve was used in the Mitsubishi Debonair, 3000GT and Dodge Stealth producing 222 horsepower (166 kW) and 205 pound force-feet (278 N·m) of torque in naturally aspirated form, and as much as 320 horsepower (240 kW) and 315 pound force-feet (427 N·m) of torque in turbocharged form.[2] Each bank of the V6 had its own independent turbocharger and intercooler. Turbo chargers were built by Mitsubishi. They were water cooled to ensure longer service life.
Which would seem to imply that the fogger version was specific to many Chrysler vehicles, whilst the Mitsubishi ones had different heads and camshaft arrangements save for the one found in the Dodge Stealth, which, I don't recall ever seeing one burning oil like the vans.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Some were the Mitsu's but you also had some of the Chrysler engines as well. Then there was the sludger 2.7L's
I honestly don't remember any of the Chrysler-branded ones being bad for oil burning
The minivans with the dying tranmissions and smoking Mitsubishi 3.0L's in them were a nightmare combo that definitely gave those vans a reputation!
Although it says Chrysler it's actually a Mitsu. It would have been a great engine if Chrysler listened to Mitsubishi and went with proper valve seals. They had this same engine variation in Mitsu branded cars with proper valve seals and it didn't burn oil.
That's the notorious 3.0L
Curious about this "proper valve seals" comment, since oil consumption in Chrysler products had never been an issue and wasn't an issue with any of the Chrysler designed engines. Did the Mitsubishi engine require exotic valve seals in order to not become a mosquito fogger?
The Wiki on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_6G7_engine
States:
Quote:
The 6G72 was manufactured in three different models which featured SOHC with 12-valves, SOHC with 24-valve, and DOHC with 24-valves.
The latest version was used in the Mitsubishi Eclipse GT and Galant. Output in 2004 was 210 hp (157 kW; 213 PS) at 5500 rpm with 278 N·m (205 lbf·ft) of torque at 4000 rpm. In the older version, used in many Chrysler models since 1987 this V6 was a SOHC 12-valve developing 141 hp (105 kW) at 5000 rpm and 172 lb·ft (233 N·m) of torque at 3600 rpm. The Mitsubishi models were with a 3.0 Litre 6G72 engine SOHC 24-valve developing 195 hp (145 kW) at 5000 rpm and 205 lb·ft (278 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm.For the MIVEC engine output is 201 kW (273 PS; 270 hp) at 6000 and 304 N·m (224 lbf·ft) at 4500.
The SOHC 12-valve for the second generation of Pajero can provide 109 kW and 235N·m,the SOHC 24-valve can provide 133 kW and 255N·m.
The DOHC 24-Valve was used in the Mitsubishi Debonair, 3000GT and Dodge Stealth producing 222 horsepower (166 kW) and 205 pound force-feet (278 N·m) of torque in naturally aspirated form, and as much as 320 horsepower (240 kW) and 315 pound force-feet (427 N·m) of torque in turbocharged form.[2] Each bank of the V6 had its own independent turbocharger and intercooler. Turbo chargers were built by Mitsubishi. They were water cooled to ensure longer service life.
Which would seem to imply that the fogger version was specific to many Chrysler vehicles, whilst the Mitsubishi ones had different heads and camshaft arrangements save for the one found in the Dodge Stealth, which, I don't recall ever seeing one burning oil like the vans.
OVERKILL
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Also, on the 3.0L, there is a relatively extensive allpar article here:
https://www.allpar.com/mopar/3.html
Which states that the engine was designed and manufactured by Mitsubishi and then imported. There were some changes made to the version produced for Chrysler.
The last point mentions the oil burning:
Quote:
In 1993, Jay Storm reported, “the valve guides were redesigned to not drop down, causing skeeter-killing spy smokescreens.”
Which points to the guides, not the seals, being the issue.
https://www.allpar.com/mopar/3.html
Which states that the engine was designed and manufactured by Mitsubishi and then imported. There were some changes made to the version produced for Chrysler.
The last point mentions the oil burning:
Quote:
In 1993, Jay Storm reported, “the valve guides were redesigned to not drop down, causing skeeter-killing spy smokescreens.”
Which points to the guides, not the seals, being the issue.
I also remember plenty of the 4-cyl cars being foggers as well; Neons (2.4s), Sebrings (likely also 2.4s) definitely the minivans with 3.3s and 3.8s... we get castrated and taxed through the nose for road taxes... but Chrysler never got nailed by the EPA for all of the particulate emissions and excess oil usage during this time. Oh, the indignity and corporate favoritism!
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Chrysler was full of cash that Mercedes needed to get their hands on. In 1998, Chrysler was on fire. Their minivans, pickups and Grand Cherokees were hot sellers and cash cows.
Funny, it was Daimler that bought Chrysler, not the other way around. The Minivans were peaking and declining, the Pickups never sold well (compared to Ford and Chevy), JGC's were outsold and outclassed by Explorer and Blazers, and they were milking ancient designs for all they were worth. With or without Daimer it was "Peak Chrysler".
The Blazers and Explorers from those years were all junk though. I NEVER see any of those around anymore, I do see quite a few late 90s and early 2000s Grand Cherokees on the road still on a daily basis.
It is cool to see the assembly process for the 3.6L.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Chrysler was full of cash that Mercedes needed to get their hands on. In 1998, Chrysler was on fire. Their minivans, pickups and Grand Cherokees were hot sellers and cash cows.
Funny, it was Daimler that bought Chrysler, not the other way around. The Minivans were peaking and declining, the Pickups never sold well (compared to Ford and Chevy), JGC's were outsold and outclassed by Explorer and Blazers, and they were milking ancient designs for all they were worth. With or without Daimer it was "Peak Chrysler".
The Blazers and Explorers from those years were all junk though. I NEVER see any of those around anymore, I do see quite a few late 90s and early 2000s Grand Cherokees on the road still on a daily basis.
It is cool to see the assembly process for the 3.6L.
Valve guides were a problem in the early version of the engine the seals were always the main cause. This could be remedied by getting the seals from a Mitsu 3L engine at a Mitsu dealer (We had to drive to the US at this time because there were none in Canada) and putting them in the Chrysler version of the heads and this would stop the 3L from ever burning oil.
My uncle had an 89, it dropped the valve seats a couple of times under warranty and then he got the engine replaced twice. He put up with the oil burning until 1993 from the seals and then we pulled the heads, rebuilt ourselves with these seals and he drove the van until 2006. Not burning any oil at all. 481,000km!
My uncle had an 89, it dropped the valve seats a couple of times under warranty and then he got the engine replaced twice. He put up with the oil burning until 1993 from the seals and then we pulled the heads, rebuilt ourselves with these seals and he drove the van until 2006. Not burning any oil at all. 481,000km!
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OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Valve guides were a problem in the early version of the engine the seals were always the main cause. This could be remedied by getting the seals from a Mitsu 3L engine at a Mitsu dealer (We had to drive to the US at this time because there were none in Canada) and putting them in the Chrysler version of the heads and this would stop the 3L from ever burning oil.
My uncle had an 89, it dropped the valve seats a couple of times under warranty and then he got the engine replaced twice. He put up with the oil burning until 1993 from the seals and then we pulled the heads, rebuilt ourselves with these seals and he drove the van until 2006. Not burning any oil at all. 481,000km!
It sounds like both versions of the heads were designed and manufactured by Mitsubishi though.... Would seem to be their deficiency, not Chrysler's
There was not another manufacturer who made updated valve seals that you could source locally? That seems odd, as any time I've had to order valvetrain stuff for a Ford, there was usually a pretty decent sized list of brands to pick from that could be ordered through any jobber shop
Valve guides were a problem in the early version of the engine the seals were always the main cause. This could be remedied by getting the seals from a Mitsu 3L engine at a Mitsu dealer (We had to drive to the US at this time because there were none in Canada) and putting them in the Chrysler version of the heads and this would stop the 3L from ever burning oil.
My uncle had an 89, it dropped the valve seats a couple of times under warranty and then he got the engine replaced twice. He put up with the oil burning until 1993 from the seals and then we pulled the heads, rebuilt ourselves with these seals and he drove the van until 2006. Not burning any oil at all. 481,000km!
It sounds like both versions of the heads were designed and manufactured by Mitsubishi though.... Would seem to be their deficiency, not Chrysler's
There was not another manufacturer who made updated valve seals that you could source locally? That seems odd, as any time I've had to order valvetrain stuff for a Ford, there was usually a pretty decent sized list of brands to pick from that could be ordered through any jobber shop
They had been using the 3L design in some Mitsu vehicles before Chrysler got a hold of it. I think that Chrysler had it built to their specifications and this is why the valve seats and seals were a problem but in Mitsu vehicle they were not. (Speculation). They also didn't have EGR on some of these models but all Mitsu vehicles did that were sold in North America. As a result the 3L Chryslers without EGR would often fail NOx on emission tests and we used to skirt this by feeding some exhaust back into the intake during the dyno test. Shhhhhhhh
All I know is my dad made a killing fixing these engines knowing the seals were the consumption problem. (After the seats were revised).
These 3L's were still burning oil with their use into the 2000's model jelly-bean vans and we kept fixing them this way. All went on to live long lives because they no longer smoked like a chimney. We made countless trips to the US to get valve seals and the parts counter guy in N.Y. used to scratch his head every time we would order a ton of sets and nothing else.
All I know is my dad made a killing fixing these engines knowing the seals were the consumption problem. (After the seats were revised).
These 3L's were still burning oil with their use into the 2000's model jelly-bean vans and we kept fixing them this way. All went on to live long lives because they no longer smoked like a chimney. We made countless trips to the US to get valve seals and the parts counter guy in N.Y. used to scratch his head every time we would order a ton of sets and nothing else.
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