$2Billion later I found our stealth ship

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I drove up to Bremerton yesterday on an errand. First it Didn't look obvious but then, there it was. $2billion of wasted money sitting in ordinary, like the 70 year old carriers they had parked here to tow away.

LCS 2, just junk in ordinary. A sad legend of the orignal USS Independence.

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Weren't these more or less failed experiments? I remember the first time I saw an image of an LCS and I was thinking WTH is this supposed to be?
Originally, we were supposed to build 5 Freedom class and 5 Independence class LCS' then send them through their paces for 5 years, then decide which one we wanted to build 40 more of. Then the politicians got involved and we never did that, we just kept building both classes.
 
Then the politicians got involved and we never did that, we just kept building both classes.

Yep. Embarassing.

I was actually embarrassed to find that thing sitting tied up and rusting relatively near where I live.

It was one thing when the JFK, the Indy, etc where tied up there and rusting. They were worth the money, they served for freedom, men worked, sweated, and died on them and for us. This thing is just a costly abomination. No disrespect to the men and women who served on these; they signed up and did their part. Maybe more so since they had to double down and work for a political angle instead of a true fleet purpose.

If we'd spent 1/2 the money of these LCS junks, we'd have some frigates with ABM capability. Kim Il/Young/Sung/Puke would be out of business, and Taiwan would be safe from Chinese threats. Fact/fact. Almost Unbelievable how congressional spending mandates damage our national security. More mandates, anyone?
 
Two funny memories on that.

1) In the late 80s, a college roommate went on spring break to some central american country. He said one day the JFK showed up and prowled off the coast. He said nothing made you want to behave more than the sight of an aircraft carrier.

2) in the mid-90s, I worked for a Korean/Japanese investment firm, about the 84th floor of One World Trade Center. I didn't rate a Hudson River window seat, but the (really nice) Korean friend next to me did. One day he elbowed me and said, "Hey look, an Aircraft carrier!" it was Fleet Week, May 1995. I took a glance and it wasn't a fleet carrier, just an assualt ship. I said, "Donald, chill, that's not an aircraft carrier." He didn't believe me, but we went back to work. After lunch, he kicked me during a phone call and pointed. The JFK was indeed passing by.

You haven't seen a carrier, until you are on the 86th floor of a building - or maybe in a fighter, COD, or whatever, and you look down and that thing is blotting out all around it, making even the Hudson River look small. Oh my.

She went up to anchor near the GW Bridge for the week. Just sat there and swung at anchor and was terrifying even from seven miles away. Awesome.
 
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OK.

While I’m no fan of this platform, it’s overpriced for what it is, and we should have just bought frigates, this thread needs to avoid politics, or it goes away.

Not locked. Goes away.

OP - I’ve already edited your first post, as it was close to trolling.
 
Understood,

Not trying to be political. Discussing national priorities and blue water strategy.

It was just kind of shocking to randomly see the first in class tied up for scrapping.
 
Thanks - I agree that this platform failed to deliver on the concept.

The original idea was that we could build a $100 million ship (less than 1/10 the cost of a new DDG) that was fast, and capable in the littorals. Modular mission packages would allow it to be tailored for the mission required. Small crew, because automation would handle much of what the crew used to do, reduces lifecycle cost. The increase in the number of ships would allow the USN to visit smaller countries, or with greater frequency, to allow more "soft power" engagement.

But both designs ran up costs until it was over $350 million per delivered ship. The mission packages were even more. The ship is fast, but has short range, and therefor, doesn't support long range, blue water operations.

For the capability we got (near zero), we spent a lot of money.

If I were CNO, I would have killed it, and re-directed the money into a new frigate. Not every mission requires a full-up DDG, though the Arleigh Burkes are extremely capable.

Honestly, I would rather see this mothballed and rusting than continuing to consume resources.

Scrap it and start over.
 
Honestly, I would rather see this mothballed and rusting than continuing to consume resources.

Scrap it and start over.


I agree.

It's just sad how badly bureaucracy intrudes on what is effective. It's dispiriting there are still hulls in the shipyard (five still building or fitting out), vs. a real frigate or more Arleigh Burkes. This has always gone on, of course, but today the stakes get higher as the costs, lead time, and fleet mix get harder to alter if we find them needing. More than ever, we need to listen to the fleet and not the theorists, industry, and yards.

That said, I'm a theorist. I was commissioned, served briefly, can't talk as a plank owner to anything. But I care.

Arleigh Burke was well respected in his time, dis-respected (by others, not by his actions) as a CNO, but IMO got his pay-back by having the most effective class of ships ever built named after him. ;) I've spent hours reading as well studying the actions of "31 knot" Burke and I'd have loved to meet that man.
 
While stealth was developing, weren't missiles pretty much perfected thus eliminating the need for many smaller surface ships?
The fleet changes constantly, no?
 
That whole program was a huge blunder. The Navy needs a fast frigate but they seem to be too blind to see.

I want to know what that big boy is next to the junker?
 
While stealth was developing, weren't missiles pretty much perfected thus eliminating the need for many smaller surface ships?
The fleet changes constantly, no?

Not exactly. As much as missiles improve, missile defense also improves. CIWS (sea-wiz). And that's decades-old technology, it's only gotten better since then.

Also, while it might seem small ships are not needed, that's not the case. It used to be (say, Napoleonic wars) small ships were not helpful in serious battle, but only for scouting - but still very, very necessary. That started to disappear in the late 19th century but then - boom - torpedoes. Now small ships were absolutely vital to protect and screen the battle line. In fact, the term "destroyer" is modern short-hand for "torpedo boat destroyer" - they were originally designed to defeat small boats armed with torpedoes.

Nowadays, with increasingly compact weapons and propulsion systems, the evolution is more towards small ships for fleet defense and even forward power projection. This sounds crazy, but in 2019 when the Harry couldn't sortie (I met his secretary once, fascinating, another story), they sent the screen out anyway - it's that capable.


Does this make the carrier obsolete? No, as much as haters want to hate on that subject. But it's interesting.

I also met Harry's Secretary of the Army, who fired McArthur, and that's a REALLY fascinating story. ;)
 
That whole program was a huge blunder. The Navy needs a fast frigate but they seem to be too blind to see.

I want to know what that big boy is next to the junker?

ha ha, I didn't check the hull number. Here's the whole photo. I took this while I was driving as they intentionally give you no space to pull over on this road. It's a support ship of some A- type.

Ok, just checked. USS Bridge (Civil War Commodore), T-AOE-10.

The cranes off the bow of the Bridge are the work cranes of the Puget Sound Navy Shipyard (PSNS). That's where the (no pun intended - ok, yes it is) heavy lifting is really done. A few miles north of here is sub base Bangor, where all the pac fleet boomers reside.

I joke to Seattle people who don't know - If the Olympic peninsula of Washington seceded, it would instantly be the world's 3rd most powerful nation. ;)

Not a few years ago, this row was just stunning - JFK, Kittyhawk, I think the Indy. When I moved here (Nearby) 20 years ago, Missouri and Iowa were tied up here. Just stunning.
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I had to look up the USS Bridge. Commissioned in 1996.

This ship should have a ton of life left in her. From what I read she burns a lot of fuel.
 
I had to look up the USS Bridge. Commissioned in 1996.

This ship should have a ton of life left in her. From what I read she burns a lot of fuel.

Ok, I just trolled through my old photos. Here's what it looked like seven years ago. I'm in the other lane because were were coming back from a wedding in Seattle at the Cathedral, we took the ferry to Bremerton for fun.

There were three super carriers lined up there then, I *think* from L to R they were the Indy, JFK, and Kittyhawk. I'm sure @Astro14 or someone with better google earth skills can correct me. ;) Sadly these have all been turned into razor blades by now, but such is life.

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I think this is the Kittyhawk. I'm positive the Doppler effect is a Dodge Ram. :)
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This was from the water.
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That is the Ranger at the bottom, she had 1 bridle catcher on her stbd catapult. Hated to see her get cut up, made 2 WestPacs on her including Desert Storm. They were trying to make her a museum collecting money, instead, the Navy sells it for a buck to the butcher.
 
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