270deg oil temps w/Redline..should I worry?

[Tyrolkid]

This might be on the long side, but could spark some interesting discussion.....

I have a '00 VW GTI 1.8T running 28psi of boost. Dyno figures are 212whp/285tq(stock 140/140)

. I Drag/AutoX/Road Race it whenever possible, although it serves as my daily driver(10k miles per year).

Before heading out to Pocono raceway last month, I decided to experiment with some temperature stickers. These are small paper strips that turn black at specific temperatures. I attached strips to the oil filter, oil pan, and oil return from the turbo. The course is a very high speed/high rpm oval(135mph in my GTI), so temps won't ever be higher.

Temps were obviously highest at the turbo return. they were between 270-280. Oil in the pan was between 260-270, and oil in the filter between 250-260. I run Redline 5w-40 at 6-7k intervals. Oil capacity has been increased from 4.7qts to 5.3qts using a larger(Napa Gold 1333). UOAs have been excellent so far. Should I be worried long term, or should I just continue on?? Thanks in advance for any input

.

-Mike P

[ September 16, 2003, 10:58 PM: Message edited by: Tyrolkid ]

 

[userfriendly]

Wow, thats hot, but the UOAs are ok.
What else can you go on?
If there was a lubrication problem I'm sure by now it would have showed up by now.
If you are at all worried, shorten up the drain intervals.
I am under the impression that 270-280F is far beyond the normal service temperature of mineral multi-grades.
You are giving your turbo(s) a cooling-down period I trust?
How is your lead PPM in the UOAs?

 

[theguru]

Are you running an oil cooler?

 

[Tyrolkid]

Here was one of my UOAs(copied and pasted from another thread):

Customer Name : Pancheri
Oil Brand/Weight : Redline 5w-40
Type Equipment : VW GTi 1.8 T
Miles/Hours on oil : 5000
Total Miles/Hours : 40000

Results ppm/% Comments (blank=normal)
Wear
Copper 5
Iron 5
Chromium 0
Lead 5
Aluminum 3
Silicon 8 airfilter working well
Tin 1

Additives
Molybdenum 435 lower for Redline
Sodium 7
Magnesium 51
Zinc 1010
Potassium 0
Phosphorus 948
Calcium 2140

Physical Properties
Water negative
Fuel negative
Antifreeze negative
Soot 0
Oxidation 214 107% high,not accurate due to chemistry of oil formulation
Nitration 72 36% Normal to elevated Turbo burns hot !
Sulfur 127 Fuel sulfur in NY/NJ area
TBN 9
Vis@100 C 14.6 40w perfect


The car is equipped with a factory water/oil cooler. I'd really prefer not to install a supplemtental as I'm running out of room with other stuff.....

 

[moribundman]

As far as I know all VW/Audi cars have oil coolers. At least both my Sciroccos, my Corrado, and my A4 all had one.

270 degr F is about 130 degc C, which is not uncommon at prolonged high-RPM driving. I reached that temperature routinely when driving Autobahn. Think 6200 RPM for at least 30 minutes.

[ September 16, 2003, 11:48 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[userfriendly]

The oil stayed in grade, but how?
With high oxidation, and some shearing balancing out the viscosity?
If you cut you drain intervals in half, you might cut your wear numbers per 1000 miles in half.
Maybe not, but I think by the looks of it you have the right oil, and I don't plug anybody's product.

 

[sub_zero]

That is pretty hot for an automobile engine!! Looks like th RL is working though, don't fix what ain't broke.

userfriendly,

Group IV oils in alot of industrial/aviation applications run at least that hot and last for a long long time, using high quality filtration. The only thing that gets them is the water they absorb, running hot the TAN goes through the roof. The risk of corroding mega buck bearings makes the TAN number very critical.

[ September 17, 2003, 12:51 AM: Message edited by: sub_zero ]

 

[userfriendly]

Yea, good thing it isn't a mineral based multi-grade.
How about those gen-3 ETOs?
BTW sub, hows the 0W30 Duron workin' for ya?
I'm saving the last 4 litres I have left from a 4X4 pack for December and Janurary.
Out came the SAE 40 today and in went the last of my original 0W40 Esso XD-3 (PAO).
Oh yea, I'm runnin a test to see which brand of dry dog food wild starving forest fire Black Bears like the best.
Ursla should be back tonight.

[ September 17, 2003, 01:22 AM: Message edited by: userfriendly ]

 

[Jelly]

In regards to your temperatues, without installing an aftermarket cooler, I don't believe their is much you can do besides continuing to run high quality oil and filters.

I just recommended this same combination to another guy on this site...

Mobil Delvac1
* I like the idea of a thicker fluid film (up to a certain point) in "high-performance" applications, and the 1.8T can run 40-weights with no problems. Delvac1 is an excellent oil, and I think in your car w/ the condtions it is running that it would do very well.

K&N Oil filter
* Geezz...Patman got me going on these things! Don't like their air filters so much, but for a "regular" oil filter, the K&N is pretty darn good. The appealing trait is their high flow rate...will keep the oil flowing at high rpms that your car so often sees.

With that said though, your wear numbers with Redline look good...I'm just letting you know what I would do.

[ September 17, 2003, 02:15 AM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[theguru]

Hi,

My sons runs his Nissan 180sx turbo (220rwhp) on Motul 300v. He changes it every 5k. He does have an oil cooler fitted on the opposite side to the standard intercoller just forward of the front wheels. It is surprising how much cooler the oil is. The oil lines etc are cool to touch. It does have a thermo in line as well. Hasn't done an UOA but the oil appears near its end at 5K. He drives it hard all the time, after its warmed up of course, frequently redlining. It was running 280rwhp initially, but the motor was pinging its head off and slowly destroying the internals. He is running Shell Optimax 98 Octane plus some octane boost (nulon).

 

[sprintman]

Which viscosity 300V?

 

[theguru]

10w40 summer , currently 3w30.

 

[buster]

Hmmm. Oil is part of the cooling system. If an oil is running hotter, does that mean it is taking away heat from the engine or is it suposed to be cooler? Report is nice!

 

[harrydog]

I don't think you will find an oil better suited to your circumstances than Redline. I'd be using their 10w40 though.

 

[JonS]

Were does one find the temp strips? I have asked the guys at the parts stores, and they have not heard of them. They said try the "cooking" stores. Were can i get some?

 

[Ferrari]

quote:

---

Originally posted by harrydog:
I don't think you will find an oil better suited to your circumstances than Redline. I'd be using their 10w40 though.

---

Motul 300V is a racing oil, better than Redline in high-temp, high-stress situations.

 

[theguru]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ferrari:

quote:

---

Originally posted by harrydog:
I don't think you will find an oil better suited to your circumstances than Redline. I'd be using their 10w40 though.

---

Motul 300V is a racing oil, better than Redline in high-temp, high-stress situations.

---

Pretty much sounds like Redline as well according to their website. I would use the Redline myself instead of the 300v in my 200sx (240K?) except the Redline is abt $140AUD for 4 ltrs whereas the 300v is $80AUD-. I have bought Redline trans & diff oils, and will change soon.

 

[theguru]

BTW Ferrari do you have any of the specs for the 300v, the Motul website and forum provide very little information.

 

[Ferrari]

I don't. I've emailed them for the specs but they haven't replied yet.

 

[Tyrolkid]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JonS:
Were does one find the temp strips? I have asked the guys at the parts stores, and they have not heard of them. They said try the "cooking" stores. Were can i get some?

---

I bought mine from here:

http://www.mv.com/ipusers/paperthermometer/

-Mike P