22 mag, whats the deal?

[billt460]

Shannow, Put your charts and graphs down, take an afternoon and walk away from your keyboard, and go to the range with both a .22 L.R., and a .22 Magnum rifle. Shoot both into a 15 to 20 MPH crosswind like I have many times over the last 45+ years. The .22 Magnum will drift LESS with identical weight bullets at the same distance.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Originally Posted By: hatt

The subsonic seems to be the only one that really benefits from this according to Federal ballistic data. The .22 mag isn't a long range target round. What other real world scenario is this going to come up? http://federalpremium.com/products/rimfire.aspx http://federalpremium.com/products/rimfire.aspx

Wind drift is always related to the delay time (delta time of flight vacuum versus air), regrdless of velocity and time of flight. Two bullets, same weight, same speed, different ballistic co-efficient, the one with the better ballistic co-efficient has less drift...not proportional to the time of flight, but due to the better performance of the good BC in air versus the other one. http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA570469

Quote:

Abstract: This paper describes the internal, external, and terminal ballisticsof the 30-06 rifle cartridge.With cartridge case capacity of 68-70 grains of water and operating pressures up to 60,000 psi, the 30-06 launches 110-220 grain bullets with muzzle velocities between 3400 fps and 2400 fps, respectively. Low-drag bullets are available which make the 30-06 an effective and capable choice for target and anti-personnel use out to 1000 yards, but longer range applications are challenging due to the sonic transition. With an appropriate bullet choice, the 30-06 penetrates a variety of commonly encountered barriers. It also penetrates soft body armors and can deliver significant wounding effects even when stopped by hard body armor. At shorter ranges, wounding effects in human and deer-sized living targets are impressive and yield rapid incapacitation.

Quote:

Most ballistic calculators compute horizontal winddriftusing a procedure equivalent to the formula Wd = 17.6 x Vw x Tlag where Wd is the horizontal wind deflection (in inches), Vw is the cross wind velocity (in miles per hour), and Tlag is the lag time, or time delay between the time the bullet would reach that range in a vacuum and the time it actually takes when aerodynamic drag is included (in seconds).

It's counter-intuitive, but fact...you have to get the velocity and BC high enough to get the Tlag down to the same as a subsonic round to come back to the same drift. It's just that in the world of trans-sonic bullets, the "delay" time is more for the supersoninc bullets out to a reasonable speed beyond sonic. and a .22Mag doesn't get there.

I'm not arguing the physics. Lets talk real world. You don't like the .22 mag because of subsonic .22s. Those two aren't in the same category. The .22 mag isn't a target cartridge and subsonic .22 LRs aren't great hunting rounds at 75+ yards on coyote sized game. You've taken one case which is just about meaningless and passed ruling on every other aspect. Most people use high velocity .22 LR ammo. In which case the mag walks all over it in every ballistic measurement. If we're comparing apples to apples.

 

[Shannow]

Nope, no other ruling on anything...the OP didn't mention what he was using it for. I stated * not a fan * more wind-drift than a .22 * can't chamber a .22 in it (like some do .357 and .38). what other rulings did I make ? Didn't mention terminal performance, coyote sized game, or that I'd never shoot a roo with a .22LR. Got jumped all over for the wind drift, which is the ONLY statement I made regarding it's ballistics...and it's a fact that most people don't get (which is why there's all the argument). Unless you can point me to the post where I passed ruling on "EVERY OTHER" aspect of the cartridge. (oh, and it's stupidly expensive in Oz)

 

[hatt]

All I asked is for you to point out real world applications.

Quote:

* more wind-drift than a .22

You mean subsonic .22?

 

[hatt]

I'm not saying the mag is the best choice for a rifle these days. Plenty of nice compact .223s like the CZ. I do like the convertible revolvers. LR for cheap practice. Mags for the field. If you already have one of those a rifle isn't a bad idea.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: hatt

All I asked is for you to point out real world applications.

Quote:

* more wind-drift than a .22

You mean subsonic .22?

Originally Posted By: Shannow

A .22 standard versus a super, the super takes a hit in wind drift...the magnum doesn't get it back, and IIRC, a hornet is still hanging out there.

CCI bluebox or the like

 

[hatt]

Looking at the Federal data. The 40 grain 1080 fps LR loads have pretty much the same wind drift as the 40 grain mag at 100 yards. The 50 grain mag beat the 40 grain LR load by over an inch at 100 yards. I'm not seeing what you're seeing.

 

[Cristobal]

I have an old Winchester 9422 in .22 WMR. It has a receiver sight and is a sweet shooter. In a handgun, a .22WMR has a lot of stopping power for its size and will serve a lot better than nothing for self defense.

 

[koffy]

I asked this question because I'm buying a hand gun for my dad as a Christmas present, I'm not a guns guy by any mean, I had no idea about why he likes the mag cartridge better than just a 22 LR,,it's just that (little) extra punch I guess,,,, I feel as if I were buying a toy for a kid, he's 80 years old already and has always liked 22 mag long barrel revolvers,,

 

[4WD]

I have a Ruger Single Six convertible - one cylinder for .22 LR and one for .22 WM ... good pistol for young and old ...

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: koffy

I asked this question because I'm buying a hand gun for my dad as a Christmas present, I'm not a guns guy by any mean, I had no idea about why he likes the mag cartridge better than just a 22 LR,,it's just that (little) extra punch I guess,,,, I feel as if I were buying a toy for a kid, he's 80 years old already and has always liked 22 mag long barrel revolvers,,

Handgun...get the magnum for sure. (and a LR cylinder)

 

[koffy]

I don't understand guys,,,if you have a 22 mag you can fire LR cartridge or you get another cylinder? I'm confused, does it depend on models?

 

[Astro14]

Buy the Ruger single six and call it a day. It shoots both. Very accurate. Classic lines.

 

[DuckRyder]

Originally Posted By: koffy

I don't understand guys,,,if you have a 22 mag you can fire LR cartridge or you get another cylinder? I'm confused, does it depend on models?

Yes, Ruger for sure makes a model that comes with both cylinders called a convertible . http://ruger.com/products/newModelSingleSixConvertible/models.html Not sure about Smith & Wesson.

 

[hatt]

Originally Posted By: koffy

I don't understand guys,,,if you have a 22 mag you can fire LR cartridge or you get another cylinder? I'm confused, does it depend on models?

You need two cylinders. You can't fire .22 LR in a .22 mag chamber. Different cartridge design. Mag on left, LR on right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heeled_bullet Check around a few gun stores. The old Colt New Frontiers are nice and often show up.

 

[billt460]

The biggest issue with convertible guns, (i.e. 2 cylinders, one in .22 L.R., and the other in .22 Magnum), is they usually have barrels that will allow the .22 Magnum to operate at the correct pressure, and the most accurately. Usually .224 dia. Most .22 L.R. ammunition is slightly smaller, and as a result requires a .222 or .223 barrel. What you wind up with in a gun like a Ruger Single Six Convertible, is a real accurate piece in .22 Magnum, but not so accurate when you put the L.R. cylinder in it to shoot .22 L.R. The accuracy is tolerable. But it isn't as much as you'll get from the jacketed Magnum bullets fired in the properly sized .224 diameter barrel. As always you don't get something for nothing. I have 2 convertible .22 L.R. / .22 Magnum revolvers. A Ruger Stainless Single Six, and a E.A.A. Bounty Hunter 10 shot convertible. Both shoot the Magnum round more accurately. That said the .22 L.R. accuracy they both deliver is acceptable, just not as good. Besides, most of these convertible revolvers are plinkers and "fun guns", and not dedicated target pieces.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460

The biggest issue with convertible guns, (i.e. 2 cylinders, one in .22 L.R., and the other in .22 Magnum), is they usually have barrels that will allow the .22 Magnum to operate at the correct pressure, and the most accurately. Usually .224 dia. Most .22 L.R. ammunition is slightly smaller, and as a result requires a .222 or .223 barrel. What you wind up with in a gun like a Ruger Single Six Convertible, is a real accurate piece in .22 Magnum, but not so accurate when you put the L.R. cylinder in it to shoot .22 L.R. The accuracy is tolerable. But it isn't as much as you'll get from the jacketed Magnum bullets fired in the properly sized .224 diameter barrel.

Are you sure about that ? You've just argued the same point forward and backwards.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Shannow

Are you sure about that? You've just argued the same point forward and backwards.

It certainly appears you're not. You need to read less, and with more understanding when you do, and shoot more. Stop trying to pick words apart in order to find something that isn't there, and get some real trigger time. The fact you're even questioning my last post shows your complete lack of common knowledge on the subject. I said the .22 Magnum with it's higher velocity in the same weight and shape bullet, is LESS susceptible to wind drift, than it's slower .22 L.R. counterpart. Anyone who has fired both of these rounds to any extent in crosswind conditions would know this. You are clearly showing you have little real world understanding about either of these 2 rounds. Simply put you need to get away from your computer, and get out and do some shooting. If you have, or did, you wouldn't be trying to argue these false points which you can only support with computer data, and zero real world experience. Just to prove my point. How many convertible .22 revolvers do you own and shoot? And what, if any actual data can you put forth from shooting them? I'm talking real world personal shooting experience here. Not something you read off a screen, and can only offer a link to.

 

[4WD]

I have really liked my Ruger .22 - don't enjoy shooting it's big brother anymore (.44 mag) ... only thing to consider is a case since it can be very aggravating to misplace the cylinder not in the gun ...

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: billt460

I said the .22 Magnum with it's higher velocity in the same weight and shape bullet, is LESS susceptible to wind drift, than it's slower .22 L.R. counterpart.

The same can be said of any round having the same attributes with only velocity being the variance. When varmint hunting in WY/MT using custom Remington 700 rifles in .223 and .22-250 calibers and my hand loads (which use all the same components), the .22-250 ALWAYS experiences less wind drift when fired at similar ranges versus the .223.