22 dead in Pakistan after being stuck in their cars during cold temperatures

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y_p_w

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I guess we could look at the fiasco on I-95 in VA where vehicles were stuck for over 24 hours, but at least nobody died and I don't believe anyone was even injured. And this was less than 30 miles from the the capital (Islamabad).

OK - I wasn't previously aware that anyone died.

 
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Read about this... very sad. But they do not have much experience when it comes to cold temperatures and snow.
 
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All good advice. Heard the same 50 years ago in Winnipeg.

Still keep a bag in my truck: fleece, coat, hat, gloves, scarf, blanket, MREs, water, Clif Bars.

People in Virginia used to laugh at my level of preparation.

Doubt they’re laughing any more…
I forgot to include "and a shovel".

We have a compact shovel with a collapsible handle that we carry in the trunk in the winter. You never know when you're going to be dealing with snow (even in Victoria, BC). On one winter afternoon, as we went to ballroom dancing lessons there were a few light flurries and completely clear roads. Two hours later we couldn't get home because a bus and 2 trucks were blocking our highway exit due to heavy snow. Traffic was backed up for a mile or more. We could have walked home (and a few people did - only to have their vehicles packed into a snow bank when the plows came). We eventually got home having spent several hours on a 20 minute trip. A shovel wouldn't have helped much on this occasion but you get the idea.
 

y_p_w

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Read about this... very sad. But they do not have much experience when it comes to cold temperatures and snow.

The area itself has a lot of experience with cold and snow. But it seems to be a lot like what we have in California, where people decide that it will be fun to play in the snow but aren't necessarily prepared for winter driving near the Sierra Nevada (Tahoe, Yosemite, etc.), the Cascades (Mount Shasta, Lassen), or even Big Bear Lake. I really doubt that anyone went there prepared with tire chains and Nokians.



This is about 100 km from Los Angeles County. They get people who simply aren't prepared trying to go.

VC_BigBearLakeWinter_Hero_BigBearMtn_Supplied_H4Y4191_1280x640_0.jpg
 

Astro14

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I forgot to include "and a shovel".

We have a compact shovel with a collapsible handle that we carry in the trunk in the winter. You never know when you're going to be dealing with snow (even in Victoria, BC). On one winter afternoon, as we went to ballroom dancing lessons there were a few light flurries and completely clear roads. Two hours later we couldn't get home because a bus and 2 trucks were blocking our highway exit due to heavy snow. Traffic was backed up for a mile or more. We could have walked home (and a few people did - only to have their vehicles packed into a snow bank when the plows came). We eventually got home having spent several hours on a 20 minute trip. A shovel wouldn't have helped much on this occasion but you get the idea.
I also have tow straps, a set of tools, battery jump box, an awesome snow brush, and yes, a shovel.

Made by Glock.

It's really an entrenching tool, and pre-dates the company entrance into firearms.
 

y_p_w

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I also have tow straps, a set of tools, battery jump box, an awesome snow brush, and yes, a shovel.

Made by Glock.

It's really an entrenching tool, and pre-dates the company entrance into firearms.

I thought the history was that they made furniture of some kind before Gaston Glock decided that his company was going into the firearms business.

I mean - Nokia was a tire company before they went into electronics. The Indian IT consulting company WIPRO was previously known as West India Palm Refined Oil.

Nokia-winterreifen2.jpg
 
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There was one sighted in the Lake Tahoe area. Nobody knows exactly how it got there, but I think researchers grabbed its poop and DNA analysis showed it was descended from a population from Idaho.

I've seen plenty of animals that could theoretically be dangerous. Bears (check out my avatar photo - I took it), buck deer, turkeys (I hear they can be really nasty in some places), and even raccoons. But the absolutely scariest was a possum that I saw on the side of the road. I'm pretty sure it was still alive, but it looked absolutely still and was sitting up with its eyes were wide open and its mouth slightly open where it was baring its teeth.
funny you mention a oppossum. Watched my grandpa pick one up by the tail and fling it, it played dead the entire time.

Saw my first black bear in the wild this fall, she was a big one and quickly dissappeared behind a small hill but it sure was cool seeing it.
 

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funny you mention a oppossum. Watched my grandpa pick one up by the tail and fling it, it played dead the entire time.

Saw my first black bear in the wild this fall, she was a big one and quickly dissappeared behind a small hill but it sure was cool seeing it.

Haven't seen a grizzly in the wild, but plenty of American black bears. It's kind of hard to miss them in a place like Yosemite where they go looking for food in campsites. However, the one in my photo was at Kings Canyon National Park, and right on top of a downed giant sequoia tree. Cubs too. My wife was freaked out thinking that mama will attack believing that the cubs are in danger, although they're known to run away more than anything else and then will use their sense of smell to go back. Cubs usually climb up trees. Our first sign that there were bears was actually hearing (then seeing) one cub (not in the picture) scurrying up a tree right next to the trail.

But it could be worse. American black bears aren't terribly dangerous because they tend to run away more than anything else. Himalayan black bears can be pretty nasty and aggressive around humans. Not sure if there in the part of Pakistan that got snowed in.
 
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funny you mention a oppossum. Watched my grandpa pick one up by the tail and fling it, it played dead the entire time.

Saw my first black bear in the wild this fall, she was a big one and quickly dissappeared behind a small hill but it sure was cool seeing it.

I really don't think they are conscious when "playing dead".
 
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Haven't seen a grizzly in the wild, but plenty of American black bears. It's kind of hard to miss them in a place like Yosemite where they go looking for food in campsites. However, the one in my photo was at Kings Canyon National Park, and right on top of a downed giant sequoia tree. Cubs too. My wife was freaked out thinking that mama will attack believing that the cubs are in danger, although they're known to run away more than anything else and then will use their sense of smell to go back. Cubs usually climb up trees. Our first sign that there were bears was actually hearing (then seeing) one cub (not in the picture) scurrying up a tree right next to the trail.

But it could be worse. American black bears aren't terribly dangerous because they tend to run away more than anything else. Himalayan black bears can be pretty nasty and aggressive around humans. Not sure if there in the part of Pakistan that got snowed in.
I've seen grizzly bears in the wild and lots of black bears.

Black bears are the instigator of a lot of bear attacks in Canada. They often run away but not always. One thing I had not heard of until recently was stalking behaviour by black bears. They'll size a person up as being a meal and then stalk and approach quite aggressively.

A black bear dragged one of my patients out of his tent by his scalp and chased him into the lake. My patient got away.
 
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I had a new colleague from South Africa. He used to drive long distances in prairie winters but had no concept of winter survival preparations.

So I sat him down and gave him a short course on survival if trapped on the road by a blizzard. It happens. You should be able to survive for a couple of days at least. You never let your fuel tank get below half. You ration the fuel to warm the vehicle every few hours. You make sure the exhaust doesn't get blocked by snow. You bring along warm clothes (parka, hat, mitts, underwear, warm socks and boots) and a subzero sleeping bag. You carry a candle or two, matches and high energy rations. And you never head off on a road you don't know or try to walk for help unless you can see a building that has smoke coming out of the chimney.
My parents grew up south of Winnipeg, and my Dad taught me the 30/30/30 rule. -30F with a 30mph wind, freezes exposed skin in 30 seconds!
 

y_p_w

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I've seen grizzly bears in the wild and lots of black bears.

Black bears are the instigator of a lot of bear attacks in Canada. They often run away but not always. One thing I had not heard of until recently was stalking behaviour by black bears. They'll size a person up as being a meal and then stalk and approach quite aggressively.

A black bear dragged one of my patients out of his tent by his scalp and chased him into the lake. My patient got away.

I've heard something claiming that an American black bear has never been recorded as causing a human fatality in California or Nevada.

However, I've heard of predatory black bears. But not in California. California bears are the ninjas of the bear world. They do sneak attacks on campgrounds and in many areas have mastered the art of breaking into cars. This is the handiwork of a bear. They're not necessarily that good at breaking into trunks. But some have learned how to dig their claws into door frames, which causes the windows to shatter. Then they'll claw their way through the upholstery to get to the contents of the trunk. It's a lot of work though before a park ranger comes and start shooting stuff at bears. The ones that score big manage to find a cooler that can be dragged away.

bear-ripped-door-off-a-subcompact-nps-photo.jpg


bear-ripped-up-interior-of-car-NPS-photo.jpg
 
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I've seen grizzly bears in the wild and lots of black bears.

Black bears are the instigator of a lot of bear attacks in Canada. They often run away but not always. One thing I had not heard of until recently was stalking behaviour by black bears. They'll size a person up as being a meal and then stalk and approach quite aggressively.

A black bear dragged one of my patients out of his tent by his scalp and chased him into the lake. My patient got away.
Yeah, I was stalked by a good size black bear in early spring many years ago. I was walking in and out of the woods at the edge of a field loading my trailer with 9' corner fence posts I had cut. I was lifting them onto my shoulder and dropping them into my metal trailer so I could be heard for a mile. He must have been watching me for a while as when I noticed him he was maybe 30-40m away half behind a tree... I kept an eye on him and backed out to the Atv and trailer and drove up to the house, and got my shotgun ready as I assumed he come for the chicken coop next. But he didn't and we never saw it again.
The older farmers here just shoot predators that make themselves easy to shoot, which I agree with as well. I don't want a bear or coyote comfortable enough around humans to study them, and then potentially stalk them....
 
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It’s already here. It’s always been here.

Look at what happened on I-95 in Virginia last week.

People think that because we have more information at our fingertips now that disaster, or even just the unexpected, won’t happen to them.

They‘re wrong.


Great day ain't this the Truth ^^^^^^^^^^^

I remember in April 2011 during that massive tornado outbreak and Dr Forbes mentioned how so few people were going to die because of all the advanced warnings and technology available....

300+ people died that day.

Information is great... But a) paying attention to it matters... And b) actually knowing what to do in response to the information matters.

I know for a fact I was the ONLY one in my hospital paying attention to the weather that time in April 2011... Thank goodness that major tornado a EF-3 missed our hospital. Hit my home county and killed 2 people there and injured a good number of others. That tornado leveled the local intermediate school too. Another EF-3 tornado that sane day killed 13 people in eastern NC that day.
 
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I've heard something claiming that an American black bear has never been recorded as causing a human fatality in California or Nevada.

However, I've heard of predatory black bears. But not in California. California bears are the ninjas of the bear world. They do sneak attacks on campgrounds and in many areas have mastered the art of breaking into cars. This is the handiwork of a bear. They're not necessarily that good at breaking into trunks. But some have learned how to dig their claws into door frames, which causes the windows to shatter. Then they'll claw their way through the upholstery to get to the contents of the trunk. It's a lot of work though before a park ranger comes and start shooting stuff at bears. The ones that score big manage to find a cooler that can be dragged away.

bear-ripped-door-off-a-subcompact-nps-photo.jpg


bear-ripped-up-interior-of-car-NPS-photo.jpg


"Score a cooler"..... That's those darn alcoholic grizzly bears striking be again.... :)
 

y_p_w

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"Score a cooler"..... That's those darn alcoholic grizzly bears striking be again.... :)

Not a grizzly, but otherwise, absolutely.



Bears like going things where humans have already packed. Going through a bunch of stuff that's loose in a bear box can only be consumed on the spot, which I've seen when a fellow camper's bear box wouldn't properly close. I remember talking to a boy scout ready to go backpacking, only he put his pack down at the Yosemite Valley Backpackers Campground and a bear snuck up on him and dragged it away. The bear probably didn't know what was in there, but I'm guessing it was more like a porch pirate hoping to score something good. The last time I went camping in Yosemite, I woke up because park ranger was banging on the door of the RV at the next site. It had one of those external racks hanging from the bumper with a cooler mounted on it.

Now there was one case where a campground neighbor wanted a cooler outside and left it on a picnic table overnight. I remember the rules there were everything in the car unless you were there with it. They didn't have a bear problem (I was told hunting kind of put a serious fear of humans in them) but their problem was more birds and squirrels. They couldn't get it open, but that table was just crawling with crows trying to find a way to open it.
 
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Alaska has its share of black, brown, and polar bears. God help you if a polar is on your tail. You're food for them. Thankfully, I don't visit Alaska's Western and Northern Coasts that often.

Large blacks are about the same in Alaska -- viscous. Though, they can be fought off by a strong man who is equally aggressive or viscous. I figure they are the most unpredictable and dangerous.

Thankfully, most brown bears (Kodiaks aside) are easily shooed away. Just gently let the bear know you are there and are human -- from as far away as possible. That will usually drive them in the opposite direction. Don't run or otherwise provoke an instinctive chase in the bear, leaving the bear thinking you're prey. Provoke the FLIGHT in the brownie; gently let the bear know you're there and slowly back up. If you cannot scare the bear away with final shouts and flailing arms and are attacked, curl up into a ball, with your hands laced behind your neck, protecting it.

If a brownie attacks, it's usually because it was unexpectedly surprised/frightened while the human was up close. It attacked instinctively. Usually, that precipitates being knocked down, raked with claws and bitten. After that, they usually run off. Humans are not food for a brown bear -- they won't eat you.

Browns will kill you if... you intrude upon their kill, such as a half buried moose carcass that's being tenderized. Or, if you get between a mama and her cubs. That's a bad scene as well.

It's the large blackies that raise the hairs on the back of my neck. I've been stalked by one; one got as close as about 75 yards, hanging around for over a half hour. I was just north of the Arctic Circle and about 1 to 2 miles east of the Dalton Hwy at the time. Luckily, I had my 10MM glock on me. Would've used it if I had to.

There ends the story of Alaska's three bears and protecting yourself. ;)


Three Bears.JPG


Don't even get me started on winter driving on Alaska's remote "bush" roads. That's a whole story, though most of the thorough suggestions about what to take in your vehicle (above) are good/great. We do the same here.

:)
 
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I've heard something claiming that an American black bear has never been recorded as causing a human fatality in California or Nevada.

However, I've heard of predatory black bears. But not in California. California bears are the ninjas of the bear world. They do sneak attacks on campgrounds and in many areas have mastered the art of breaking into cars. This is the handiwork of a bear. They're not necessarily that good at breaking into trunks. But some have learned how to dig their claws into door frames, which causes the windows to shatter. Then they'll claw their way through the upholstery to get to the contents of the trunk. It's a lot of work though before a park ranger comes and start shooting stuff at bears. The ones that score big manage to find a cooler that can be dragged away.

bear-ripped-door-off-a-subcompact-nps-photo.jpg


bear-ripped-up-interior-of-car-NPS-photo.jpg
I also remember reading bear proof containers were no longer bear proof because they realize they can roll them up the cliff and toss it down, then once they hit the bottom and break, they can dig in.

As the saying goes, the smartest bear and the dumbest human overlap in the intelligence.
 
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