20w-50 for Explorers & Hondas?

[widman]

I was just looking through the Texaco site for oil recomendations in Brazil and find that they recommend Havoline 20w-50 in the same Ford Explorer and Ranger engines that are in the U.S. and other places. Here Ford puts 5w-30 in them. So I looked up Honda and they also recommend 20w50 for 2002 Hondas, Chevrolet Blazers, etc.
What's your take on this? CAFE? or Texaco not wanting to launch thinner oils in Brazil so they recommend thicker?

 

[Whimsey]

Maybe Texaco figures that the driver's mindset is such that they won't accept such a "thin" grade of oil. Especially since Brazil is basically a tropical climate. Of course Texaco could just be lazy

. In Bolivia do you sell any 5W-30 oils. Since you are a more mountainous country and have a colder climate I would guess that the 5W-30 would be beneficial. But then again maybe it's not widely accepted by the drivers and lube distributors/petrol stations.

Whimsey

 

[Jelly]

quote:

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Originally posted by widman:
I was just looking through the Texaco site for oil recomendations in Brazil and find that they recommend Havoline 20w-50 in the same Ford Explorer and Ranger engines that are in the U.S. and other places. Here Ford puts 5w-30 in them. So I looked up Honda and they also recommend 20w50 for 2002 Hondas, Chevrolet Blazers, etc.
What's your take on this? CAFE? or Texaco not wanting to launch thinner oils in Brazil so they recommend thicker?

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20w-50 mineral oil is overkill...I can't see any reason to use it in any new car/suv/pickup.

[ October 01, 2003, 04:32 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Depends on the oil temp. I suppose if the oil temp was in excess of 250, then I would want a 40-50 weight in there.

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
Depends on the oil temp. I suppose if the oil temp was in excess of 250, then I would want a 40-50 weight in there.

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Or an oil cooler.

 

[Dr. T]

That's because the whole "engine clearance" thing is B.S....so is engine size and type for that matter...

So yes, if you're in hot climates like Mexico, S.A. or Australia a 5W-30 is not only useless, but you'll be ready for engine rebuild every 100-150k mi.

 

[buster]

quote:

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That's because the whole "engine clearance" thing is B.S....so is engine size and type for that matter...

So yes, if you're in hot climates like Mexico, S.A. or Australia a 5W-30 is not only useless, but you'll be ready for engine rebuild every 100-150k mi.

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Ok,...sure...whatever you say.

 

[Dominik]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:

quote:

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That's because the whole "engine clearance" thing is B.S....so is engine size and type for that matter...

So yes, if you're in hot climates like Mexico, S.A. or Australia a 5W-30 is not only useless, but you'll be ready for engine rebuild every 100-150k mi.

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Ok,...sure...whatever you say.

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Dr.T is absolutely right

at Mexican or Brasilian temperatures 5W-30 will only give you mild bore polishing over time

what is is with those thin oils in North America ?!?!

guys down under use 25W-70 in Japanese cars, but of course if 5000km/3000mi change intervals have been beaten into people from early infacy then I guess even sowing machine oil will do. Accross the big puddle oil changes are done every 15,000-20,000km there hardly anybody uses that silly X-W30 stuff.

 

[sprintman]

I just spoke to Kiwi Ivan Walker from Walker Racing Engines Sydney one of Australia's best engine builders re clearances. Except for Aluminium blocks like Rodeck, Donovan etc running steel cranks that run tighter clearances in the mains by nearly a full .001 from std .0025 to cover the different expansion rates, every engine he sees from 4cyl, straight 6 or V6 to small or large V8 run almost exactly the same oil system clearances and as they were from the factory. A Lexus V8 import he pulled down from NA has exactly the same as a Lexus V8 sold here. Ivan spends nuch time in the US with Ron Shaver, Gaerte, Paul Kistler etc some of NA's best race engine builders. Good friends with Steve and Karl Kinser too. He said clearances havn't changed in the 35 years of his engine building and I can't print his response to US engines having 'tighter clearances'. Piston to wall varies depending on cast, Hypereutectic, or forged pistons of course but that has bugger all to do with oil viscosity. Blueprinting removes the clearance variations of course. As mentioned previously the majority of engines here are straight from GM or Ford in the US or from Japan yet XW40 or XW50 the main oils with a small but growing number using 10W30. And lastly odd nobody has bothered to mention GC could be giving good results possibly because it's nearly a 40W?

 

[Patman]

quote:

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Originally posted by sprintman:
And lastly odd nobody has bothered to mention GC could be giving good results possibly because it's nearly a 40W?

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I've mentioned it a few times actually. I think we see better wear numbers overall on most of the oils which are upper 30wts like GC, Amsoil and Redline.

 

[buster]

Running a 50wt in a 4cyl is overkill and will only rob HP and increase heat. Oil pumps aren't made for pumping that thick of an oil, I thought? A good synthetic like Amsoil that is an upper 30wt/40wt. is good enough.

 

[userfriendly]

Buster;
How thick is an 0W30 weight oil at -35C?
Will the pump move the oil at that temperature?
What does the number of cylinders have to do with an engine's oil viscosity?
One cylinder 0W20, two cylinders 5W20, four cylinders 0w30, six cylinders, well I'm stuck, need help. It has to be either an 0w40 or 5W30.
5W40 would be for V8s, but that leaves out 10W30.
Last year I used 10W30 Rotella which is a high 30 weight (12.1) in my 250 I-6 Chev.
My XR650R Honda has only one cylinder.
Its water cooled, but 15W50 might rob power and make the back tire last longer than 300 miles.
I'm confused.

 

[Ken2]

Friendly,

Often, a 4 cylinder engine is geared to run at higher rpms to provide enough power to keep the car going. A big engine would be just loafing, both cruising at 110kmh. This might even argue for a heavier viscosity grade in the harder working small engine....


Ken

 

[Dr. T]

This is what happens...we're so accustomed to running a 5-30 or some other thin oil. Everything's fine because the engine works and will not self-destruct. As long as you change the oil every 3k, you may be OK. Those that wait to 7.5k...well, we've seen the Toyota stories. The rest of us speak about how auto-rx can be used to clean things up.

In either case, if you've been on a steady diet (both mentally and engine wise) of 5-30 and then you put in 5-40 or 15-50, you car will run like garbage and you will say..."thick oils suck".

And yes, they do because the engine was "choked" over many thou miles with coked-on thin oil. It's only with either auto-rx or continual use of the higher viscosity that a gradual return of the original fuel economy will be returned. For eg. I'm getting the best fuel economy ever with a 10-60!

But, it didn't occur right away. I just hope it's not too late for some because you obviously can't put in 15-50 in a smoker and expect miracles. And for those that ditch their cars at 100k, none of this probably matters anyway....

 

[buster]

Dr. T, I think what happens is you get used to the change. I'm running 0w-20 right now, and at first it felt so different. Now I don't notice it.

This arguement of "thick vs thin" is really stupid to some degree if we think about it. You should use the lightest viscosity that gives you adequate wear. Not all engine, even turbos, need thick oil. You are ignoring all the UOA's posted if you say thick is always better.

GM tested the Corvette at top speed hours and hours over and over again and M1 5w-30 did fine I bet. Why would they put an oil in that didn't hold up? Is it the best choice? No, but a 15w-50 isn't either. There are ideal viscosities depending on each different engine. To assume that all engines will do better on Thick oils is just idiotic if you ask me. If I ran a 15w-50 in a Corolla, my engine would be sluggish and loose MPG. And it wouldn't change with time.

 

[sbc350gearhead]

quote:

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Originally posted by Patman:
Or an oil cooler. [/QB]

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Good point.

 

[userfriendly]

Buster;
Are you saying you can tell by driving your car what viscosity the engine oil is?
Thats it! I'm going to hafta' read Wulimaster's book now.
Zen and the art of engine oil viscosity.
OOooooooHhhhhhMmmmmm

 

[JohnBrowning]

We all know that I belive in useing temp/vis charts. If you are not choseing oils based on temp. you are only makeing the right choice a few times a year. If you are not considering all weights of motor oil from 25W70 to 0W30 then you are being a bit closed minded unless your temps are rather static.

They say ignorance is bliss! This is my take on the single weight(light weight) oil recommendations currently in fashion! It has been well reported that clearances as a hole have not changed that much industry wide. SO far no one claiming that their engine is "tight" has provided clearances to prove this or a reference to a loose engine and it's spec.'s. I am not saying that some newer designs might not have slightly better clearances but for the most part this has not been proven!! Now tolerances and concentricity of parts and tolerance stacking have been greatly improved!

The UOA is not conclusive either. First we need to get everyone to try something besides 0W30GC or 5W30 M1! We simply do not have enough data from people running thicker oils. We also know that in general you are only looking at a 5HP difference when compareing similar base stock oils of different weights with in the same brand. THe large difference usualy only shows up when base stock and additive technology change in addition to viscoaity. These HP numbers usualy are most evident at WOT on a dyno!

buster have you ever ran 15W50,15W40,20W50,10W40,5W40,10W60,25W70 in anything that you have done UOA or Dynoed or torn down after testing or raceing?

 

[buster]

John and userfriendly, no and no. I don't know the viscosity by driving, but what I am saying is that I will notice a 15w-50 in my car vs a 0w-20 in terms of HP and MPG.

John, you make very valid points and I'm not disagreeing, what I am saying is I don't think every engine needs a 50wt oil even in the summer months. Your right about tolerances not changing much. But what I see based on UOA's on here, is that certain engines do fine on 20wt/30wt oils. Mobil told me that engines are better today and that is ONE of the reason thicker oils are not needed. He also mentioned CAFE, which is the major driving force behind the move to lower as we all know.

quote:

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I feel my car is more powerful now than when I first got it. You know all Corvettes seem to get slower as you get used to the power and then we begin to mod the **** out of them. The Vararam and gears by far really helps give the car a different feel all together.

I'm partial to using Mobil1 Synthetic. I have switched between 5W30 and 10W30. To me, in my climate, the 10W30 Mobil1 seems to be a little easier on the engine. I noticed that my oil temperatures are a few degrees cooler with the 10W30 than when running the 5W30. I know this will spur on some interesting conversation, but 10W30 Mobil1 is what is in the car now and it's what I will put in the car in a couple of weeks during my next oil change.

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This quote is from a guy who has 100,000 miles on his C5 Corvette using nothing but Mobil 1 5w/10w-30 oil. Seems to be doing just fine on that economy oil thats so thin and horrible.

[ October 02, 2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[TooSlick]

JB,

Up until about 1998, all the European auto manufacturers put out very comprehensive oil vis/temp charts for their engines. The Vw/Audi chart listed everything from 5w-30 to 10w-60 for the same engine! The lowest allowable temp for a particular grade was generally the "SAE J300" test temp used to determine the Cold Crank Simulator or CCS viscosity. For example, 15w-40 and 15w-50 grades could be used down to -15C/+5F, and 20w-50 could be used down to -10C/+14F.

These charts always made very good sense to me and I don't see why they couldn't be used on domestic or Japanese engines. The key is that the oil must be thin enough on startup to allow the engine to turn over easily. If it is, then it's thin enough to provide adequate flow during warmup ....