2022 Toyota GR86, PP 5W-30, 4,291 OCI

Joined
Mar 4, 2003
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225
Location
Wellington, Florida
Just the 2nd change on this engine. Son is in college and does about 700 miles a month, it would be lower but he comes home every 6 weeks or so, a 350 mile round trip. The engine is still new and there's the infamous overuse of silicon sealant with Subaru, which can contribute to the high Si numbers. Cu seems awfully high, what type of wear does that typically indicate?

All my cars should be using 0W-20 but in hot South Florida, I've been using 5W-30. I switched back to 5W-20 on this fill and will stick with it for a while to see it trends.

22 GR86-Mar 2023.jpg
 
As expected, PP 5W-30 is really a 5W-20.
Higher copper probably from coolers (oil?) washing out. Again, expected.
How can you be sure it’s PP’s fault when the factory fill was 6.56 and likely left 15-20% in the engine? It would only take a few % of oil that thin to drop the PP to 8.4cSt, especially since there’s no apparent fuel in this sample.

Which is another story… I don’t think even virgin PP has a flashpoint of 450F which means there may be fuel present.
 
There's likely not a whole lot of residual factory fill as the additive content of the PP (Zn, P, Ca, Mg) are pretty much in line with virgin content. There's always some residual, but I don't think that's the main factor here. Even if 20% of the sump is residual oil, that wouldn't drop PP all the way down to 8.40 cSt even with PP 5W-30's low virgin KV100 of just 9.8 cSt. I think the oil just straight up sheared.

It's possible some fuel may be present. Blackstone isn't reliable for fuel % so you have to take their result with a grain of salt.

The copper being elevated is normal for a new engine still breaking in. It's likely from a cooler or a sealant. It's trending downward as it should and nothing to worry about.

The trace elements of manganese and sodium are likely from cross interference in ICP. I would ignore them.

Pennzoil coming in under API minimum for phosphorus still.
 
5K on engine with 2 changes...normal to see big metals numbers that will drop off soon. The 20 vs. 30 will not show any differences w/r the metals UOA to UOA. SiO2 just the sealers.
 
How can you be sure it’s PP’s fault when the factory fill was 6.56 and likely left 15-20% in the engine? It would only take a few % of oil that thin to drop the PP to 8.4cSt, especially since there’s no apparent fuel in this sample.

Which is another story… I don’t think even virgin PP has a flashpoint of 450F which means there may be fuel present.
That VOA I just posted along with links to other recent PP VOAs. Seems virgin cSt for 5W30 is now around ~9ish. Apparently thin is back in again.
 
Apparently thin is back in again.
You mean the “fat is where it’s at” crowd have finally come to their senses?

It’s also possible some of these oils, since the mfrs know every day more of them are being used in GDIs, are using the methodology that HPL Dave has referenced: the oils will lose some viscosity thanks to fuel dilution, but this is then partially offset by designed-in oxidative thickening.

If one samples early enough in the OCI, the sample may show out of grade because of fuel. But if all other characteristics are fine and filtration is good, the OCI can be continued, and at the next OA sample the oil will be back in grade or even heading into the next thicker grade. This is where TBN reserve and TAN increase can be used to determine actual service life rather than myths and histrionics.

Maybe it’s possible that people have simply been changing the “new” PP too early to show it’s real strengths??
 
The last HM video that Project Farm made, his VOA of the latest M1 HM 5W30 was also below grade. Around 9.2 cSt. The comparison oil in that video was SuperTech and their HM 5W30 came in at 10.37. 🤷‍♂️
 
You mean the “fat is where it’s at” crowd have finally come to their senses?

It’s also possible some of these oils, since the mfrs know every day more of them are being used in GDIs, are using the methodology that HPL Dave has referenced: the oils will lose some viscosity thanks to fuel dilution, but this is then partially offset by designed-in oxidative thickening.

If one samples early enough in the OCI, the sample may show out of grade because of fuel. But if all other characteristics are fine and filtration is good, the OCI can be continued, and at the next OA sample the oil will be back in grade or even heading into the next thicker grade. This is where TBN reserve and TAN increase can be used to determine actual service life rather than myths and histrionics.

Maybe it’s possible that people have simply been changing the “new” PP too early to show it’s real strengths??
I have these data in my UOAs - immediately out of grade then will slowly increase viscosity the longer you drive.
 
The last HM video that Project Farm made, his VOA of the latest M1 HM 5W30 was also below grade. Around 9.2 cSt. The comparison oil in that video was SuperTech and their HM 5W30 came in at 10.37. 🤷‍♂️
But more importantly....which won the ice luge?
 
Just the 2nd change on this engine. Son is in college and does about 700 miles a month, it would be lower but he comes home every 6 weeks or so, a 350 mile round trip. The engine is still new and there's the infamous overuse of silicon sealant with Subaru, which can contribute to the high Si numbers. Cu seems awfully high, what type of wear does that typically indicate?

All my cars should be using 0W-20 but in hot South Florida, I've been using 5W-30. I switched back to 5W-20 on this fill and will stick with it for a while to see it trends.

View attachment 144542
I live in S.Florida too. It really is not too hot for a 0W-20. Not that there's anything wrong with going more viscous.
 
I had very high silicon and copper in my '22 Subaru, which also has a boxer engine. Way higher than that! It will come down in time. My numbers are all low at 12,000mi. I highly recommend changing the oil every 3,000 miles with these Subaru GDI fuel diluting engines and also FYI, Blackstone Labs is terribly inaccurate in their fuel dilution numbers. They use the flashpoint method vs the way more accurate GC method. Usually their fuel dilution numbers read 3-4 times lower than they should. I left Blackstone after 10 years for OAI labs because of this. Your low 100°C viscosity is a red flag that you could very well have fuel dilution but Blackstone shows it very low. I bet OAI would show you with a 2-3% fuel dilution.
 
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